Be careful....

greg1016 said:
This isn't a rule that can really be bent, between departing jets the required runway separation is 6000ft AND airborne, that means the succeeding aircraft cannot start their takeoff roll until the preceding aircraft is wheels up. If you have already been put in position on the runway, it cannot be anticipated either. Visual separation is only approved on the runway for helicopters and for touch and go aircraft to reduce the wake turbulence delay.
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KLAS has entered the chat
 
ChasenSFO said:
It's funny reading the cockpit lav comments here only because Philippine Airlines had 1 747 with a cockpit lav and I remember when it retired, the Philippines aviation pages were full of 747 pilots going, "No!! Now I always have to do the walk of shame". For a pilot group that doesn't seem very rabble rabble, a future without cockpit pooping really brought out the rabble rabble. Haha.

I suppose the 747-400 cockpit is larger, but I'd imagine you still smell it. Especially on MNL-LAX/SFO where 2+ meals pass thru each pilot haha. And Filipinos love their garlic.
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What were you doing on the Philippines "aviation" pages @ChasenSFO
 
greg1016 said:
This isn't a rule that can really be bent, between departing jets the required runway separation is 6000ft AND airborne, that means the succeeding aircraft cannot start their takeoff roll until the preceding aircraft is wheels up. If you have already been put in position on the runway, it cannot be anticipated either. Visual separation is only approved on the runway for helicopters and for touch and go aircraft to reduce the wake turbulence delay.
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Wow so you're saying that controllers have to follow procedures and rules and aren't just say, throttling traffic into SEA because of their retirement*??

(*also not true)
 
Inverted said:
No idea if this is real or not but a couple of controller buddies have told me that they are basically throttling the flow into SEA on purpose because SEA has as much traffic as an LAX or SFO, but is a lower-category airport in terms of pay for ATC. SO basically the controllers have slowed arrivals down to meet their pay.
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The regular line controllers don’t set the flow rate.
 
phill1174 said:
Lol “rows of seats”. We gotta have picture time when we get together again bro. If they could get away with not having the one lav they would. The queen has 2 rows of seats (iirc) and running water (we also don’t have running water on the 76). I was amazed they had running water then I rode on one the first time.
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I think that I've been watching too many accident videos on YT over the years. I saw a video on FDX 705, an MD-10 and they had like 3-4 rows of seats aft of the cockpit door and a lav. That was for jump seaters and was the sleeping area. I figured that all cargo planes were like that.
 
ChasenSFO said:
It's funny reading the cockpit lav comments here only because Philippine Airlines had 1 747 with a cockpit lav and I remember when it retired, the Philippines aviation pages were full of 747 pilots going, "No!! Now I always have to do the walk of shame". For a pilot group that doesn't seem very rabble rabble, a future without cockpit pooping really brought out the rabble rabble. Haha.

I suppose the 747-400 cockpit is larger, but I'd imagine you still smell it. Especially on MNL-LAX/SFO where 2+ meals pass thru each pilot haha. And Filipinos love their garlic.
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The difference is that cargo pilots don’t need to have a walk of shame, they just get up and walk out. It’s an annoyance when passengers/FAs are involved so I get that sentiment of wanting it in the cockpit. Cargo doesn’t have that problem so obviously the best option would be to have it away from the cockpit.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
I think that I've been watching too many accident videos on YT over the years. I saw a video on FDX 705, an MD-10 and they had like 3-4 rows of seats aft of the cockpit door and a lav. That was for jump seaters and was the sleeping area. I figured that all cargo planes were like that.
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There's like 6 or 7 different seating configurations just on purple MD11s. With the amount of P2F freighters out there, they are all over the map. The purple and brown 767s are factory freighters. But I'm truly shocked that an aviation video got it wrong....
 
mikecweb said:
There's like 6 or 7 different seating configurations just on purple MD11s. With the amount of P2F freighters out there, they are all over the map. The purple and brown 767s are factory freighters. But I'm truly shocked that an aviation video got it wrong....
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Look... look, look! I was embarrassed while writing and knew I'd be ridiculed. But I felt the need to just be honest. Lol.
 
roundout said:
KLAS has entered the chat
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And PHX. "Do you have the departing 737 in sight? Maintain visual separation runway (whatever) cleared for takeoff"

Well, it's just not press the takeoff button, guys.
 
derg said:
And PHX. "Do you have the departing 737 in sight? Maintain visual separation runway (whatever) cleared for takeoff"

Well, it's just not press the takeoff button, guys.
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Yup. I take my time getting into position before we push up the thrust levers. Sure, we have them in sight. Now hang loose while I create my own spacing for wake turbulence. ‍♂️
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I never liked the closely spaced departures PHX does. Keep the airplane in sight ahead and roll before he’s even rotated, then ride through his wake for the first thousand feet of your climb. Not a fan.
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I used to call it nose gear separation.

As soon as the first 737 starts to roll line up and wait the second 737. When #1’s nose gear breaks ground clear #2 for takeoff. When #2 rotates you only got 1-1/2 miles separation but the speed difference give you 3 miles by the time you ship #2 to departure. To be legal, local controller is providing visual separation so you need to be VMC.

Assuming you have no arrivals, you can do that about 3, maybe 4 times before departure control screams “hold everyone for release”.

The gods were smiling on me one day. Flight of 2 F-15’s, followed by a Lear, two 727‘s, followed by a King Air, Bringing up the rear a piston twin. I launched all of them before departure control said anything. The ground controller and I disliked the guy working departure so we were getting a laugh out of it.

About 15 minutes later the supervisor sent me down to work data for the departure controller. Now only the ground controller was laughing.
 
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NovemberEcho said:
I mean sure if they’re weak sticks
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We had a lot of guys, most of the facility, close or past retirement.

When I got there two of us were fresh out of the academy. Almost everyone else was over 50 and had 20 plus years in the same facility. They hated us young whipper snappers.

Every time the computer picked someone “at random” for drug testing it was me and/or the other young guy. The old guys would go to the Airport Marriott’s bar for lunch and everyone looked the other way. When the PATCO strike happened the old guys crossed the picket line and tried to retire but the FAA said no. For more than a year they were working more than 60 hours a week but only getting paid for 60 because their pay was capped.
 
///AMG said:
I guess this is the silver lining of SEA's rather inefficient departure/arrival runway flow program. We got "metered" for 30 seconds.....not even joking.....the other night on the arrival. It was a left 90 for maybe 20 seconds and then resume. I imagine this somehow factored into them needing to cross 17000 jets over 16L.
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They do that stupidity on their interstate too…. And it accomplishes literally nothing on I5.


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Maximilian_Jenius said:
I think that I've been watching too many accident videos on YT over the years. I saw a video on FDX 705, an MD-10 and they had like 3-4 rows of seats aft of the cockpit door and a lav. That was for jump seaters and was the sleeping area. I figured that all cargo planes were like that.
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The MD-10s never had 3-4 rows of seats in the courier area.

The MD-10-10s had 2 configurations: either 2 seats facing aft or 4 seats facing forward. There was a lav, a cooler box to store crew meals and an ice chest for drinks.

The MD-10-30 (which is what 705 was) only had one configuration: 2 seats facing aft, a lav and a very small galley area (which was rarely used).

The 11, as was stated earlier has several configurations: 2 seats facing aft, 2 seats facing aft + 3 seats facing forward (animal charter birds...we have like 5 in that configuration) and no seats aft (Sleepers, where the crew rest compartment takes up where the seats go).

The lav is outside of the cockpit on all MDs...thank god.
 
ERfly said:
The MD-10s never had 3-4 rows of seats in the courier area.

The MD-10-10s had 2 configurations: either 2 seats facing aft or 4 seats facing forward. There was a lav, a cooler box to store crew meals and an ice chest for drinks.

The MD-10-30 (which is what 705 was) only had one configuration: 2 seats facing aft, a lav and a very small galley area (which was rarely used).

The 11, as was stated earlier has several configurations: 2 seats facing aft, 2 seats facing aft + 3 seats facing forward (animal charter birds...we have like 5 in that configuration) and no seats aft (Sleepers, where the crew rest compartment takes up where the seats go).

The lav is outside of the cockpit on all MDs...thank god.
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There were some MD10s where the courier seats faced the lav. I forget if they were -10s or -30s. Super awkward when you are taking off and you get leaned into the person seated next to you.
 
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