Avelo

[BobDDuck]

Shouldn’t our gamer generation be a perfect fit for the lack of pilots coming up in the system. Todays modern cockpits are basically programming and then watching for the next few hours. (As long as your in something bigger than a 200). I would take a 300 hour gamer over a 1000 hour book jockey. Don’t the regionals just put a red MEL sticker over the right half of the cockpit anyways.

I have my 9yr old come out to the airport on days he’s not in school. He can program my PL21 better than my fo. My fo is retired FAA with I quote “more flight time than he needs to fly anything”.

For loading the box, watching the system do its thing, and flying the plane via the FMS and FCP (or equivalent), yes. For everything else, no.

 

[JustinS]

For FITS there doesn’t have to be any required hours does there? My memory was just proficiency and completion of the syllabus.

There were usually some hour requirements for specific types of time, but not total time. Those restrictions, and just the practicality of how quickly you could complete a unit was restricting as well. So I think you’re right though in that there isn’t an exact total time number you could nail down as a minimum. I think the guy I know that did the lowest time was around 120 hours from zero to CSEL/CMEL.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Was it written in the rules somewhere? I don’t ever recall FITS. Back in those days, 190 hrs vs 250 hrs were the two big numbers everyone talked about (with up to 50 hrs in an approved sim for instrument time, think it was an ATC-610).

I never even heard of FITS. Did part 61 schools do it? Or 141? Or was it some FaiTS-tailored schools?

For those who got the Comm/Inst/ME under 190 hrs, what flight school / collegiate program was this?

 

[Roger Roger]

There were usually some hour requirements for specific types of time, but not total time. Those restrictions, and just the practicality of how quickly you could complete a unit was restricting as well. So I think you’re right though in that there isn’t an exact total time number you could nail down as a minimum. I think the guy I know that did the lowest time was around 120 hours from zero to CSEL/CMEL.

Yeah, that’s the way I’m remembering it. i seem to remember also converted in stages so there may have been a period where you had say normal 141 with self examining for private, normal 141 with a DPE checkride for instrument, and FITS with self examining for CMEL. But again, that’s 10+ years ago and it changed several times during my 5 years so I’m sure I’ve got some stuff scrambled.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Under what Part was FITS done?

 

[JustinS]

Yeah, that’s the way I’m remembering it. i seem to remember also converted in stages so there may have been a period where you had say normal 141 with self examining for private, normal 141 with a DPE checkride for instrument, and FITS with self examining for CMEL. But again, that’s 10+ years ago and it changed several times during my 5 years so I’m sure I’ve got some stuff scrambled.

When I was there the school only had examining authority for Private, and Instrument. I think since I left it has since changed again.

 

[JustinS]

Under what Part was FITS done?

It was done under Part 141 with special authorization from the FAA. FITS stands for FAA Industry Training Stantards. The school has to write a sylabus that meets the requirements of FITS, and the FAA has to approve it. The sylabus is very detailed and specific on all training/knowledge requirements. You can read all about it here.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/training/fits/

 

[Roger Roger]

When I was there the school only had examining authority for Private, and Instrument. I think since I left it has since changed again.

Come to think of it we may have gained instrument self examining and lost CMEL when we went FITS for CMEL. Like I said, been a while.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It was done under Part 141 with special authorization from the FAA. FITS stands for FAA Industry Training Stantards. The school has to write a sylabus that meets the requirements of FITS, and the FAA has to approve it. The sylabus is very detailed and specific on all training/knowledge requirements. You can read all about it here.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/training/fits/

I see. Thank you.

I swear though, I called around some pretty large 141 flight schools in those days and everyone sold on their min of 190 hrs required versus traditional 250 hrs for commercial. No one mentioned anything less than 190.

 

[SrFnFly227]

As I recall, a school could choose to do self examining or to reduce the hours required for certificates. So at Riddle (I didn't know any better when I was 18), we had to take our Commercial check with a DPE, but everything else could be done by our own check pilots. This was 2000-2004. Fall of 2004, the school switched to 142 and I don't remember any of the requirements as I taught mostly private students for the 2 semesters I instructed.

The only hour requirement for a course that I had an issue with was CFII. I passed my check ride and was called the next day saying that it was somehow overlooked that I didn't have the required dual received for the course approval. I had to go up with my instructor for 0.4 to meet the requirements and then they issued my temp.

 

[zmiller4]

As I recall, a school could choose to do self examining or to reduce the hours required for certificates. So at Riddle (I didn't know any better when I was 18), we had to take our Commercial check with a DPE, but everything else could be done by our own check pilots. This was 2000-2004.

That’s interesting, that’s the first I’ve heard that there was a choice. I instructed around that time and our 141 side had normal mind but self examining for *everything*. Including CFI’s. Which got reversed later on, but there were a few who had their CFI rides with the chief/assistant chief instructors. But honestly I’m glad I did mine with a DPE, our chiefs were brutal.

 

[poser765]

For real though, I didn't even like taking the CRJ in there and was glad when they dropped the destination. There was always turbulence coming down final across the sound.

I don’t have a problem going IN there. It’s getting around on the surface that puckers me up a bit.

 

[knot4u]

I just....how....what....

You can't DO that....did he think he wouldn't be fired? The whole point of being on reserve is that you might get called.....

With respect to the group, are you not aware that occasionally a pilot might be an arrogant ass hole?

 

[poser765]

As already mentioned, it could be done in less than that. I had my Comm/Inst/SE/ME at 184 total. There was a new hire a few classes in front of me at Pinnacle who had 180 total. He made it through training, but was let go in his probation year. Something about telling scheduling to F off when they called him during his reserve time. He hadn't bothered to commute in and didn't feel like flying that week.

Lol that’s a problem.
On a different note, I once flew with an FO that was fresh off of OE… like I was his first regular trip. Anyway, that day also happened to be win bid awards for the next month dropped. He say his reserve schedule and lost his mind. “When am I going to be able to see my girlfriend!?”

Oh you sweet child.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Would FITS be a good thing in today's world with the 1500 hr. rule? I'd suspect not as I have 500 tt and not making any real head way towards a low-time job. I really think that the FAA really needs to do something about this. They can get you to 250 with a commercial, but afterwards, there's no defined plan. Which is yet another reason in talks with other low timers in groups on FB, people are frustrated and giving up on going the airline route, or any route really.

 

[Lawman]

As I recall, a school could choose to do self examining or to reduce the hours required for certificates. So at Riddle (I didn't know any better when I was 18), we had to take our Commercial check with a DPE, but everything else could be done by our own check pilots. This was 2000-2004. Fall of 2004, the school switched to 142 and I don't remember any of the requirements as I taught mostly private students for the 2 semesters I instructed.

The only hour requirement for a course that I had an issue with was CFII. I passed my check ride and was called the next day saying that it was somehow overlooked that I didn't have the required dual received for the course approval. I had to go up with my instructor for 0.4 to meet the requirements and then they issued my temp.

If you remember they also used the course catalog of a given degree to force compliance to those FAA 144 expectations.

So an Aero Studies major could fly the Riddle flight line or off campus and then take a check ride for any certification off campus, but the vaunted Aero Science degree required checking through ERAUs schoolhouse. I think they granted exception for up to 1 certification because a lot of students were showing up with a private already in hand.

That was 00-02 timeframe.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SrFnFly227]

If you remember they also used the course catalog of a given degree to force compliance to those FAA 144 expectations.

So an Aero Studies major could fly the Riddle flight line or off campus and then take a check ride for any certification off campus, but the vaunted Aero Science degree required checking through ERAUs schoolhouse. I think they granted exception for up to 1 certification because a lot of students were showing up with a private already in hand.

That was 00-02 timeframe.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yep. After the switch to 142, it was even more strict. Ground lab was combined with a normal course so the students would then take the written half as part of the new full semester course. I had a student show up with his written already completed (something to do with military requirement) and the school had given him credit for the whole course. But, because the written wasn't taken through the new course, as the syllabus for private pilot required, he couldn't get his private under the 142 program. That meant we got to make it up as we went. It was a pain, but also turned out to be a lot of fun.

He was going to be my only student in Daytona over Thanksgiving and he was coming up on cross countries. He said he wanted to go somewhere other than MLB or GNV so we took a 172 to Virginia and spent the weekend with my family. We planned the whole thing together and then I made sure to hit a bunch of his flight time requirements during the round trip. We got some actual instrument and I put him under the hood a bit. We also did the flight home at night and knocked out every bit of night flying that was required for the private. 16 years later and I'm still shocked the school allowed it.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Lol that’s a problem.
On a different note, I once flew with an FO that was fresh off of OE… like I was his first regular trip. Anyway, that day also happened to be win bid awards for the next month dropped. He say his reserve schedule and lost his mind. “When am I going to be able to see my girlfriend!?”

Oh you sweet child.

I believe it.

Had a very sharp guy at jet U, hired at Pinnacle, 6 months later I noticed his name wasn’t on the list. I txt him to ask what’s up. He said the lifestyle just wasn’t for him.

Seriously.



I’ll never understand people who drop serious dinero, time, and effort to get into this career but then get caught surprised by the schedule or lifestyle. Umm….. did you not research this career beforehand?

 

[JustinS]

Would FITS be a good thing in today's world with the 1500 hr. rule? I'd suspect not as I have 500 tt and not making any real head way towards a low-time job. I really think that the FAA really needs to do something about this. They can get you to 250 with a commercial, but afterwards, there's no defined plan. Which is yet another reason in talks with other low timers in groups on FB, people are frustrated and giving up on going the airline route, or any route really.

I think FITS is great. It gets you out of the training world sooner and into flying jobs sooner. FITS is also a known quantity as the sylabus is extremely specific every step of the way. So it’s a known quantity for the product that comes out of the training program. 500 hours and no flying job? Unless you’re being picky, I find that hard to believe.

 

[guywhoflies]

I just....how....what....

You can't DO that....did he think he wouldn't be fired? The whole point of being on reserve is that you might get called.....

It happens. People roll the dice on not getting called. At one company I worked for, the FA's lost short call because too often when crew scheduling called an FA for a short call assignment, they were multiple states away from base.