Anyone here work at Allegiant?

[SteveC]

So, there are people saying I should choose a union regional over my family? Sorry, not buying that. Call me an "industry destroyer" if you like. I'd be okay with it since I'd still be happily married. Yeah, Velo. Sometimes you have to draw a line. My line is drawn in the "Union vs family" battle. Family's gonna win. If working at Allegiant gives me more time to spend with my kid and the ability to live where my wife wants to live.....good.

Your priorities are in the right order as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SmoothLanderJ]

Doesn't sound too bad?

This is an embarrassment to the profession.

Hey Im as pro union as you are, trust that. I ment the potential of living at home and not commuting to work didnt sound too bad.

 

[Velocipede]

So now you want to equate someone who works for a non-union company the same as a scab.

Not what I said at all. I said it was a short step to scabbing. And, yes, AAA was a BAD career decision. It was a bad career decision in 1990 when I was getting out. When did YOU make the critical error?

I have opinions and convictions and I haven't sold them out. I chose not to. I refuse to go to a company, any company, where I believe I'll be selling out those around me for my own personal gain.

Amen.

There was a guy at the freight company I worked for who said that people either have integrity or they don't.

AMEN.

I agree with that very much, and following through with what you believe in, even when it's not popular, shows integrity. If I was to simply sell myself short and go to a company that I thought was undercutting the people around me, then what in the world do I have? A few more dollars in my pocket, maybe, but no personal integrity.

AMEN.

If I were to simply sell myself out like that, I don't care about the extra dollars in my pocket; I'd be a pretty worthless sack of crap if you ask me. I'll take the furlough, thank you very much.

AMEN!!

Fighting for the betterment of their profession.

As are ALL pilot unions. We jack the house together. Non-Union pilots lower the bar. Simple as that.

Call me an "industry destroyer" if you like. I'd be okay with it since I'd still be happily married. Yeah, Velo. Sometimes you have to draw a line. My line is drawn in the "Union vs family" battle. Family's gonna win.

And when you pull the "I crossed that picket line to feed my family" what are they going to call you? And how welcome will you ever be on a flight deck ever again. INTEGRITY has a price.

Doesn't sound too bad?

This is an embarrassment to the profession.

'nuff said.

 

[kellwolf]

And when you pull the "I crossed that picket line to feed my family" what are they going to call you? And how welcome will you ever be on a flight deck ever again. INTEGRITY has a price.

Oh, this argument....again. Every time someone comes up with a valid reason to go with a non-union carrier, someone always jumps to the conclusion that they'd cross a picket line. It's BS, and it's an unfair assessment.

I'll say this, and listen good, b/c I'm sure I'll get tired of repeating myself "WORKING FOR A NON-UNION CARRIER AND CROSSING A PICKET LINE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS." Period. End of story. If someone's on strike, not crossing the line. If my airline is on strike, not crossing the line. If another job opens up that offers me more time at home with my family that just happens to be non-union, I'll take it into consideration. Totally different animals. Question my integrity all you want since you obviously don't have a CLUE about my personal situation or my thought process.


Hell, I'd make more as a first year FO at Allegiant than I would at Alaska. But hey, as I came home to my wife trying to explain how taking that union job was so much better as we clipped coupons and marveled how we used to be able to go out to eat once a week, I guess that's much better. Too bad I'd be losing the days off with my kid since I passed up a job in base for the one that has me commuting to a crashpad. Don't automatically assume that someone that will take a job at a non-union carrier is a picket line crossing individual. That automatic assumption combined with your heated distaste of all things non-union to the point you'd sully relations with your entire pilot group and other non-union carriers for a personal vendetta are the main reasons I've lost serious amounts of respect for you.

There, I'm done.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Every time someone comes up with a valid reason to go with a non-union carrier

No such thing as a valid reason for joining a non-union carrier. Sorry, but Allegiant pisses me off even more than it pisses off Velo. These guys are flying planes of the same type rating I am, into some of the same destinations, and making a fraction of the amount of money with truly horrendous work rules and benefits. These guys are dragging down my career prospects, and they're harming my negotiating leverage after five years at the bargaining table. :banghead:

 

[typhoonpilot]

Kell:

If going to Allegiant works for your personal situation and improves your life and career then do it without a second thought. Guys like Velo and PCL are an extreme minority.

I totally agree with you in your reply to Velo. Working at a non-union carrier and crossing a picket line are two completely unrelated decisions.

If guys like PCL and Velo actually cared about you then they'd spend more time trying to make ALPA an actual union that benefited all pilots instead of trying to scare you and others from taking jobs that better their own personal lives.


Typhoonpilot

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

ALPA is an actual union that benefits all pilots. But since you bring it up, and since you attack ALPA so frequently, what work did you do for the Association to make it better when you were a member? Velo and I were both ALPA officers. What office did you hold?

 

[typhoonpilot]

I was very active in the group of 283. That's the segment of the AAA list that was furloughed for over 7 years while our ALPA brothers voted to allow certain segments of the pilot list to fly overtime to "help the company". When we finally returned I attended every MEC meeting for almost two years and campaigned for the junior pilots. All to no avail of course because ALPA doesn't care about junior pilots.

Just to keep the thread on track (somewhat), and of relavence to the union versus non-union debate. While working for a non-union carrier during that time myself and another AAA furloughee decided to take a 50% pay cut for one month to keep our two first officers employed during a seasonal furlough. Highly doubt an ALPA carrier would allow that.

You see, you can talk all you want but when it comes down to real integrity and compassion you need to put your money where your mouth is. So I expect Velo to be making a monthly payment to JTrain while he's on furlough and not accepting any non-union jobs and I expect you to put Gulfstream graduate in your signature line.

I'm out,


Typhoonpilot

 

[MusketeerMan]

Me? Go to Skywest? Find those posts, until then enjoy my ignore list internet tough guy.

Comical. Finally...internet peace!

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I'm out,

Good.

 

[Lowlevel]

ALPA is an actual union that benefits all pilots. But since you bring it up, and since you attack ALPA so frequently, what work did you do for the Association to make it better when you were a member? Velo and I were both ALPA officers. What office did you hold?

I paid my dues every month, that's what I did. A classmate of mine is our MEC rep at my base. Next month, we are both on the street. So, what did ALPA do for us? You pay union dues for that "just in case" moment in your career when you need representation, kinda like car insurance. In the last few month, we have lost our ability to fill out ASAP reports because of some argument between company and ALPA. I never had to fill one out, thankfully, but that would be a "just in case" moment. We have lost nearly 300 pilots in three months with the ongoing furloughs....another "just in case" moment. I have not seen ALPA do anything to save any jobs here. And if they are trying and the company is just refusing to go along with the union recomendations, then what is the purpose of being union? The company just does what it wants anyway.
People are flying aircraft for less than a guy driving a trash truck. Is it the non union companies that cause this? No, it is the willingness of pilots to start at low pay at any company because they want to make flying their career. If ALPA mandated minimum pay for airline pilots (like Teamsters truck drivers) then you would have a union that meant something. When I first came to this company, it was made pretty clear that you WILL join the union. Sure, they said it was voluntary, but stressed that you WILL join. Some of the people in my class thought it quite odd that the union reps were rude and "strong arming" you into something, when they are supposed to be there for you.
This is a job, that you do.....for money.....to live on. If you can make more money at a different company, or at least have a job because your other company furloughed you, who cares non union or union. ALPA isn't going to be there when your sitting in the dark, with no electric, and an eviction notice on your door, because you don't want to work for a non union company.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Ahhh, another typhoonpilot who blames ALPA for furloughs. I've got news for both of you: ALPA doesn't run airlines. Your airline furloughed you, not ALPA. ALPA can only protect the profession so that you have a decent job to return to when your company calls you back. As for ASAP, ALPA is protecting you by terminating a program that management was using against your pilots. According to one of the national officers that I spoke to a few days ago, ALPA has already been working with the FAA to resolve this, and it will probably be resolved with management soon. Terminating the program and creating publicity was the only way to create leverage to fix it. ALPA did the right thing.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Ahhh, another typhoonpilot who blames ALPA for furloughs.

Known as a debating tactic of misdirection. I clearly said I don't blame ALPA for furloughs. The poster above clearly doesn't blame ALPA for the furloughs. We blame them for lack of action when furloughs happen.

ALPA can only protect the profession so that you have a decent job to return to when your company calls you back.

The senior pilot menatality of "pulling up the ladder" so that we can save you in the future. How about a little shared pain? How about a reduced pay cap? How about job sharing? These are things that ALPA could push for in contract language in the event of furloughs. Yet, they do nothing of substance.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Lowlevel]

Ahhh, another typhoonpilot who blames ALPA for furloughs. I've got news for both of you: ALPA doesn't run airlines. Your airline furloughed you, not ALPA. ALPA can only protect the profession so that you have a decent job to return to when your company calls you back. As for ASAP, ALPA is protecting you by terminating a program that management was using against your pilots. According to one of the national officers that I spoke to a few days ago, ALPA has already been working with the FAA to resolve this, and it will probably be resolved with management soon. Terminating the program and creating publicity was the only way to create leverage to fix it. ALPA did the right thing.

Hmmm, I don't remember blaming ALPA for my furlough. I am just saying that ALPA has no real power at all when it comes down to it. So, if the company ever does call back their furloughed pilots, ALPA is guaranteeing me that I will still have this same low paying job? Wow, thanks! A union, as I explained with the Teamster reference, is supposed to work to set a standard minimum that the union members will work for. If everyone is in agreement, the wages that union airlines (and non union airlines)pay are below what we are worth, so why is it that ALPA does not tell all pilots to stop flying while the union talks with airlines and gets the wages increased to a proper level? Because they have no power.
There are plenty of non union trucking companies that pay wages well below union trucking companies, but yet, the union companies still pay those higher wages. Stop blaming non union companies for bringing down your pay scale. It is not the non union companies bringing the pay down, it is you and every other union airline pilot that does not do something about the pay scale and a union that also has no power to change it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Known as a debating tactic of misdirection. I clearly said I don't blame ALPA for furloughs. The poster above clearly doesn't blame ALPA for the furloughs. We blame them for lack of action when furloughs happen.

What exactly do you expect them to do?

The senior pilot menatality of "pulling up the ladder" so that we can save you in the future. How about a little shared pain? How about a reduced pay cap? How about job sharing? These are things that ALPA could push for in contract language in the event of furloughs. Yet, they do nothing of substance.

Ahh, I see. You want the company to be able to leverage your job for reduced pay for everyone else. ALPA doesn't fall for that tactic. If they did, companies would threaten furloughs left and right in order to pressure the union into accepting lower pay caps and lower pay rates to stop the threatened furloughs. Bad idea.

so why is it that ALPA does not tell all pilots to stop flying while the union talks with airlines and gets the wages increased to a proper level?

Because that's illegal. Perhaps you should study the Railway Labor Act before you start telling a bunch of RLA lawyers how to develop their strategy.

 

[jynxyjoe]

So, if I was working there, instead of my current airline, and I was furloughed (like I will be in a few weeks), and my unemployment was $1000 less than what I was currently earning.....your fund would give me the extra $1000 a month, along with everyone else who needed the $1000 a month? So, the 300 pilots here that are furloughed would get $30000 a month from this fund? Wow! That is some fund! Then maybe I could make my car payment, rent payment, electric bill, grocery expenses, etc.. and sit and wait for a recall instead of going to a non union company and actually earning more there than I did here in the first place.

I don't know what your point is<.....>.

The fund is to help mesaba pilots in dire financial straights. We've done it withone pilot's family who got run over in the street (hit and run). I know im because I was in one of his classes, he'd finally returned to work and was upgrading. The program is still out there, I am giving to it as many other people are too. It is a group of financial advisors who will show you how to cut your bills to the bare bones and then try and fill in the blanks if we can.

I understand you are having a rough time. Just found out my buddy as Citation Shares is getting the boot. Everyone is getting it rough with no vasiline. We are just trying to do some good and maybe it's the start of something on a national level. When we get it given to us I'm sure there won't be enough money for everyone, but maybe we can help the worst off of us.

 

[Lowlevel]

I know it's illegal for the union to do that. Chooo chooooo! But even if they did, the senior older guys at the top of the pay scale would never go along with it anyway, because most of them have forgotten that they too were once at the lower end of seniority.
This whole thread is stupid. Someone was interested in finding out information about a company that was hiring, so that he could make an informed decision whether to apply or not. At first, a few people said what they knew of Allegiant (no overnights, no weekends, no holidays, quick upgrades...) then all of a sudden it became a thread of ALPA vs non union. I'm sure that he knows it is non union, and the choice is his whether the company is right for him and his life situation.
But again you fail to show how non union companies bring down your pay scale. I see many airlines in the world that pay well over the amount that US companies are paying. The airlines have some weird fear of raising ticket prices, so they started charging for every little thing to make up for it. I can go from RSW to JFK for $84 in 2.5 hours, or I can pay around $300 in gas, wear and tear on a car, and 17 hours driving. Most flights I JS on are near full or full. Airlines in the US need to raise their prices and pay their pilots and FA's what they are worth and stop giving their CEOs bonuses for coming out of bankruptcy or merging. Think about that for a minute; if you were coming out of bankruptcy you would watch your spending and be real careful with your income...not them....let's make a new logo, let's spend money painting every plane, oh and hey, I got us out of bankruptcy so throw a few million my way!
Raise prices, raise wages, people will continue to fly because it is easy, quick, and reliable. Maybe some advertising money should be spent on commercials that show the cost of driving vs the cost of flying, instead of on new logo/ same old company philosophy.
But I digress....this whole thread is stupid.

 

[Lowlevel]

I don't know what your point is in being a <....> here is.

The fund is to help mesaba pilots in dire financial straights. We've done it withone pilot's family who got run over in the street (hit and run). I know im because I was in one of his classes, he'd finally returned to work and was upgrading. The program is still out there, I am giving to it as many other people are too. It is a group of financial advisors who will show you how to cut your bills to the bare bones and then try and fill in the blanks if we can.

I understand you are having a rough time. Just found out my buddy as Citation Shares is getting the boot. Everyone is getting it rough with no vasiline. We are just trying to do some good and maybe it's the start of something on a national level. When we get it given to us I'm sure there won't be enough money for everyone, but maybe we can help the worst off of us.

Really, I did not mean anything toward your fund, it is a noble and wonderful thing that you are all doing for your fellow pilots. My point was more on the line of "what is the union going to do for all it's members that are out of work". I know that a few pilots putting money into a fund would never generate enough cash to support everyone. The answer to my question is pretty much "nothing" and that was my point in someone choosing to at least work at a non union job instead of sitting home on unemployment. You have to do what you have to do to help your family survive. You have to look out for yourself and your family, because the union is not going to be there to buy you groceries or keep your electric on.

 

[n77j]

Sounds good.

So back to Allegiant. Growing and profitable company that is currently hiring. Current time to upgrade at 2 years. 4th year pilots makes over $100K/year. Fifteen days off per month on average and home almost every night. Any better jobs at unionized carriers that are hiring right now?



TP

TP,
You make good points and your replies are professional! Velo and the rest of his gang- if i was to lose my job tomorrow and Virgin Ameirca is hiring next door-guess what- i am applying there. I have kids and a motgage payment. Tell me what i else i should do. Apply at Burger King or some lousy FBO until i get a job at a unionized company? Apply for some lame Regional with a union and start at the bottom? Make your point guys.
BTW-Velo a few weeks ago you were arguing how Repbublic (I believe it is) is taking Midwest Airlines main pilots routes. Guess what- most of them are now migrating to Allegiant(a non union company). Hemmm.......you get my point.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

Oh no! Something is wrong on the internet again!

The BS is flowing so deep here, I am officially declaring this thread a national disaster area.