Any rumors of PUBNAT 8?

[bippoptl]

No intentions of starting a flame war here, but you have no idea what happened when I took my PV or why I failed. In your eyes I may not be talented enough to do the job, and that's fine. But please know that I never gave my instructors a glimpse of inability to perform the job I was training to do.

Bip, I hope you don't become like the rest of the "grumpy" controllers and start walking around with a chip on your shoulder and your head up your @$$ because you're a controller now.

Good luck to all!

Jefe-- How are things going?

I'm really not a jerk, but I doubt they just failed you for no reason...or cause they didn't like you. Maybe you were good and just got nervous the day of the pv......but your saying that you did everything fine and the way the FAA wanted and you still failed? I just don't believe that. Again, I don't mean to be a jerk and I don't have any chip on my shoulder, I just don't think you should blame the FAA cause you didn't make it.

 

[ATC RET 2003]

...but you have no idea what happened when I took my PV or why I failed.

I beg to differ. We ALL have a very good idea of what happened and why you failed because you told everyone about it here:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/1307838-post23.html

What we don’t have, and very likely never will, is the instructor’s point of view of why you failed.

 

[bippoptl]

I beg to differ. We ALL have a very good idea of what happened and why you failed because you told everyone about it here:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/1307838-post23.html

What we don’t have, and very likely never will, is the instructor’s point of view of why you failed.

lol....thank you. I knew he posted that somewhere. I just love how no one says "I messed up TWICE, and I wasn't good enough"

 

[swinte00]

I think it's hilarious how some of you still get hard-ons by bringing up the fact that I failed my PV. I don't really care anymore and quite honestly I am glad I'm not with the FAA anymore.

All of that aside I just decided to pop in and see how things are going with everyone, (yes even queeno)

Bip, congrats on getting checked out!

If anyone is ever in the river valley (Arkansas) area and wants to meet up for a beer and whatnot shoot me a PM.

 

[ATC RET 2003]

I'm ... still wishing the FAA hadn't fu**ed me over!

I am glad I'm not with the FAA anymore.

 

[ARTCC]

I called Aviation Career Division about 2 weeks ago and ask them when the Geo Pref email would come out for PUBNAT 8. The lady over the phone told me June they would send out emails with panels in October of this year, but then she told me things can always change between now and then.:insane:

 

[Rosstafari]

That is too bad. Are they strictly going to be using the traditional interview process now?

Going with the usual caveat of "this is what I've heard from HR", that sounds like the plan. There has't been one since last August.

If anyone is ever in the river valley (Arkansas) area and wants to meet up for a beer and whatnot shoot me a PM.

Depends on who's buying.

 

[hship]

are there any numbers floating around out there for terminal hires?

 

[swinte00]

Depends on who's buying.

On me buddy, on me.

 

[ptrckturner]

Don't wanna be mean, but not being good enough to pass the PV in okc isn't getting screwed by the FAA. Okc is designed to pretty much pass everyone and if someone can actually fail then that person shouldn't EVER be allowed near a job that controlls airplanes again

Not True. You have no right to pass judgement on anyone BP. I too like Swinte failed my PV. I'm not gonna get into details here on why I failed. I will tell you I was one of the top students in my class, and anyone who worked with me can attest that I was a true professional. I know of two students who committed egregious operational errors during their PV that were passed at the discretion of the instructors. I observed one of them while I worked my ground control PV. I was busted for something that others were given a pass on.

The PV is not transparent. A couple of the students in my class should not have passed that passed. I can guarantee you that the couple in particular I speak of will not become CPC's. One guy in particular had no business going on. I am shocked to this day how he passed and I failed. Am I bitter? Sure, more regretful and heartbroken than anything, I blame MYSELF, no one else; NOT the FAA or God or snow or anything else.

But I take great offense to your statement, b/c OKC is NOT designed to pass pretty much everyone. I'm living proof of that. It's insulting and I'm gonna stand up for Swinte b/c I feel his pain. People fall through the cracks. That's life. There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about the PV and what I should have done differently. But I'm not gonna let it eat me up inside. I'm gonna take one of my greatest failures and learn from it and use it as a catalyst for sheer determination for success in whatever I pursue.

I just think you need to rexamine the context of your statement and unless your fully certified you shouldn't be so arrogant. Even if you are a CPC, I think your attitude will only hinder your abilities and future progress as a controller.

 

[bippoptl]

I really can't take back what i said...I too had people in my class that should have been washed out after basics and somehow the instructors passed them on the day of the PV. So I can't take back my statement that okc is designed to pass people. How could you say that's not true??? Okc has a 97% pass rate. That's insane since only (maybe) 40-50% will probably make it at the facility.

You may have been better than some that passed, but don't try to convince me that you were one of the top students in you class...there is NOOO way I would ever believe that from someone that failed.

And I'm not being arrogant. I'm just being truthful. OKC is a joke, and that is why they are changing it and making it harder. To fail out the people that won't make it there instead of at the facility.

 

[ptrckturner]

I really can't take back what i said...I too had people in my class that should have been washed out after basics and somehow the instructors passed them on the day of the PV. So I can't take back my statement that okc is designed to pass people. How could you say that's not true??? Okc has a 97% pass rate. That's insane since only (maybe) 40-50% will probably make it at the facility.

You may have been better than some that passed, but don't try to convince me that you were one of the top students in you class...there is NOOO way I would ever believe that from someone that failed.

And I'm not being arrogant. I'm just being truthful. OKC is a joke, and that is why they are changing it and making it harder. To fail out the people that won't make it there instead of at the facility.

Ok BP, I guess were gonna have to agree to disagree. BUT I have alot better things to do than have a trivial argument based mostly on your opinion, which your entitled to and I respect. Obviously you don't respect mine. Whatever.

BUT, Your numbers are a bit off about the pass rate. I'm just going by what I saw first hand. I've seen half a class fail and I've seen close to everyone passing. It's different every cycle. Me personally, your characterization of "OKC is a joke" is kind of disrespectful and just a dishonest choice of words. I had a couple of pretty talented friends on the enroute side (they passed their PV). They had a few, very rough days in OKC. Everybody does and you know it. Was OKC a joke on those days? I guess you were perfect on every problem every day so it was a joke to you......right. There are certain phases of training that are challenging to even the best trainees and you know it. Oh, and I guess because OKC was a joke you never had to study either, maybe you absorbed the information through osmosis

As far as me trying to convince you of anything concerning my abilities. I honestly don't care what you think of me. I'm my own worst critic. I don't need you to tell me anything I already don't know.

BP Your obviously a very talented controller. Congrats on recently becoming certified. I've heard your facility is probably one of the hardest..so mad props man. Good luck with everything, I wish you nothing but the best.

 

[Rosstafari]

Speaking of failed PVs, two Tower classes just had them this week. Quote from one guy there:

"well it was a slaughtering. lots of failures and out of the retakes only a couple passed. 1 class of 18 had 10 retakes and only 2 pass."

Wow.

 

[ViperJoe]

Yikes, so many people who failed. I'm one of them back in June 2009. 3/12 of us failed. I applied to PUBNAT 8 hoping to get back in and have even started taking a few CTI classes, maybe going that route. But really these numbers make me rethink. If I dedicate approx. 5 years of my life waiting/working towards this job and fail a SECOND time I'd be much more than devastated. I feel I've been on the verge of depression NOW, and like ptrckturner, not a day goes by where I don't think about how I failed and what my life could have been like. I'm certainly looking into other lines of work because this risk is huge and maybe it's just not the job for me. But I hate to give up on ATC because I've never felt "more right" in the short glimpse of training I got to experience.

Give up on dream?? Go big or go home??

 

[bippoptl]

I know everyone thinks I'm being a jerk, but it's Good that they are finally washing more people out and making the screening process harder. There are literally hundreds of trainees that have failed out at the facilities and now the FAA is trying to place them in other Easier places. Hopefully this cuts Down on the facility washouts.

 

[queeno]

to those of us old timers that went through OKC in the 80s what is going on now is a total JOKE, come on a 97% pass rate when it use to 55% in the old screen.the problem was that the FFA never wanted to hire OTSs only CTI/VRA and got caught with there paint down after thay imposed the IWR in 2006.the just threw togeather some half assed program and decided to let the field facilitys screen which was totally ass backwards and on top of it start sending OTSs to level 5 terminals.at least 50%of those that passed this so called screen would never have made it.sorry but bippoptl is right on the money.

 

[ptrckturner]

BP a lot of developmentals are also washing out in the field due to inadequate training programs and management. ALOT of facilities do NOT have adequate resources to train developmentals in large numbers or at the rate OKC is shipping them. Combine this with some marginal developmental controllers and your definitely gonna see some big washout numbers. BP I'm still disagreeing with you and Queeno's numbers on the OKC pass rate. They are WRONG.

As far as the 80's go Queeno. Your gonna defend the FAA? WOW. If you were involved in the PATCO strike how did that work out for you? You sound like the old guy who had to walk 5 miles to school through snow barefooted. Bottom line: That old attitude that working harder rather than smarter is out. I don't know ANYTHING about the training program in the 80's. I do know that the current pool of OTS candidates are definitely smarter, more educated and more technologically advanced than that crowd back in the 80's. Thus you have a better pool of candidates. Sorry queeno but the FAA has invested millions of dollars and guys that have PHD's that have done studies on if this OTS hiring wave was gonna work. They didn't just create this one afternoon during happy hour with the Administrator. Also ALOT of CTI grads have come through the OTS pipeline out of convenience b/c they knew they would get hired FASTER. So your theory about OTS is nonsense.

Peace.

 

[bippoptl]

Do you wanna know where I got the 97%?? From the FAA, while attending the academy. So how can you tell me I'm wrong? My class had 98.5%. Other classes had 100%, and others had 80%. However, the AVG is 97%. Now I really hope they are being stricter and making that number drop now. The 97% was from a year ago.

So I hope I am wrong cause 97% shouldn't be passing and that's my point.

And as for CTI, OTS, or EX Military......from what I've seen I think that ots are actually better at the job. In my okc class the only 2 people to fail the pv we a CTI student, and an ex air force controller. And back at the facility, cti seem to struggle much more than ots. Not saying this is all true, just what I've seen.

 

[queeno]

BP a lot of developmentals are also washing out in the field due to inadequate training programs and management. ALOT of facilities do NOT have adequate resources to train developmentals in large numbers or at the rate OKC is shipping them. Combine this with some marginal developmental controllers and your definitely gonna see some big washout numbers. BP I'm still disagreeing with you and Queeno's numbers on the OKC pass rate. They are WRONG.

As far as the 80's go Queeno. Your gonna defend the FAA? WOW. If you were involved in the PATCO strike how did that work out for you? You sound like the old guy who had to walk 5 miles to school through snow barefooted. Bottom line: That old attitude that working harder rather than smarter is out. I don't know ANYTHING about the training program in the 80's. I do know that the current pool of OTS candidates are definitely smarter, more educated and more technologically advanced than that crowd back in the 80's. Thus you have a better pool of candidates. Sorry queeno but the FAA has invested millions of dollars and guys that have PHD's that have done studies on if this OTS hiring wave was gonna work. They didn't just create this one afternoon during happy hour with the Administrator. Also ALOT of CTI grads have come through the OTS pipeline out of convenience b/c they knew they would get hired FASTER. So your theory about OTS is nonsense.

Peace.

yea you may be smarter than me but i was somthing youll never be , and air traffic controller and a retired one at that.

 

[ATC RET 2003]

Don't worry OG, I'm probably the dumbest one of the lot since I came along in the 70's. That seven year's worth of pension payments doesn't make me feel so dumb, though.