American Airlines Flight 1005 Hits Light Pole At DFW

[DE727UPS]

What if there is a load change or a runway change on taxi out? We actually had a checklist for runway change that was pretty extensive. It took about 5 minutes for the F/O to do all that stuff. Capt is supposed to watch where he's going while verifying the F/O's work. It's recommended to stop and set the parking brake when doing this but I saw a crew do that at ORD once. Pissed off ground and they got even by having us taxi around in a box pattern and then stop until they were happy. This was at like 10pm at night during the covid.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

What if there is a load change or a runway change on taxi out? We actually had a checklist for runway change that was pretty extensive. It took about 5 minutes for the F/O to do all that stuff. Capt is supposed to watch where he's going while verifying the F/O's work. It's recommended to stop and set the parking brake when doing this but I saw a crew do that at ORD once. Pissed off ground and they got even by having us taxi around in a box pattern and then stop until they were happy. This was at like 10pm at night during the covid.

At our shop, we have runway change triangle items. It's a triangle symbol on some items on the before start checklist and on the before takeoff checklist. FO makes all the changes, and then both verify, and then the CA calls for the runway change triangle items which are run as a checklist.

That said, no way would I do that in the ramp area of a large airport like DFW. Almost always, if the airport has multiple runways that required a change, chances are there is a decent portion of taxi on a straight taxiway heading to the runway. That's where I do it. Personally, I wouldn't stop, maybe taxi a bit slower than normal but keep moving on the straight taxiway.

 

[L-16B]

Load close out takes about as long as requesting a new Atis. Type in ZFW and ZFW CG (on same line) and put in stab trim on perf page. Every FO has it down by muscle memory on their finger. It takes literally seconds. Of course before that you glance it over and verify it’s correct. Under weight, under temp, no tailwind, no restricted articles (or make sure they are there), security ok, and jumpseaters where they need to be. I always offer the captain the close out to look at it but 99% decline.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Load close out takes about as long as requesting a new Atis. Type in ZFW and ZFW CG (on same line) and put in stab trim on perf page. Every FO has it down by muscle memory on their finger. It takes literally seconds. Of course before that you glance it over and verify it’s correct. Under weight, under temp, no tailwind, no restricted articles (or make sure they are there), security ok, and jumpseaters where they need to be. I always offer the captain the close out to look at it but 99% decline.

There's no verbal cross-verification for the load closeout?


Our shop, guys may reset the brake to get out time (without releasing brake pressure), but no one that I know leaves the gates without the closeout. Our numbers come fairly quick. And once the closeout comes, the FO reads the printout, and the CA verifies all the info in the box. Then we'll do prior to push checklist.

 

[Kingairer]

There's no verbal cross-verification for the load closeout?


Our shop, guys may reset the brake to get out time (without releasing brake pressure), but no one that I know leaves the gates without the closeout. Our numbers come fairly quick. And once the closeout comes, the FO reads the printout, and the CA verifies all the info in the box. Then we'll do prior to push checklist.

Yes, there is a verbal cross check.

 

[Cory Trevor]

Coincidentally that's also the fastest I've seen AA taxi

 

[🦈💜]

“Cap’n barnes! She’s up to 15 knots on the ground speed, sir!”
“I can’t hold it! She’s breaking up!”

(An American tragedy)

 

[CFIscare]

Does look like he followed the white taxi edge line.

The taxiway edge lights are yellow.

 

[L-16B]

“Cap’n barnes! She’s up to 15 knots on the ground speed, sir!”
“I can’t hold it! She’s breaking up!”

(An American tragedy)

That’s 737 captains.

 

[L-16B]

There's no verbal cross-verification for the load closeout?


Our shop, guys may reset the brake to get out time (without releasing brake pressure), but no one that I know leaves the gates without the closeout. Our numbers come fairly quick. And once the closeout comes, the FO reads the printout, and the CA verifies all the info in the box. Then we'll do prior to push checklist.

AA doesn’t register out times (at hubs) until break release and the plane is pushed back a certain amount of feet. We hopefully get close out during push out. Often taxi out. If we don’t it’s because the ramp didn’t close it out or the gate agent didn’t close it out. And sometimes we get the load close out has been deleted and get the next revision. The captain reads what’s in the box / ecam during the taxi checklist and the FO reads the value on the close out.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

AA doesn’t register out times (at hubs) until break release and the plane is pushed back a certain amount of feet. We hopefully get close out during push out. Often taxi out. If we don’t it’s because the ramp didn’t close it out or the gate agent didn’t close it out. And sometimes we get the load close out has been deleted and get the next revision. The captain reads what’s in the box / ecam during the taxi checklist and the FO reads the value on the close out.

Oh. I see now.

Brake release + pushed a couple feet is how it was at Virgin.

 

[MikeD]

For us, everything heads-down is completed prior to taxi. The taxi checklist is only two items, and any changes to the box after taxi starts such as runway change, are accomplished by FO, and double checked out loud by same. The left seater’s job is to taxi and occupy themselves with doing that, as well as listening to the changes the FO states when complete. There’s no time where both heads should be down for other than making a quick verification or check of an item, while the jet is moving.

I did watch an Airbus once taxiing some distance ahead begin to drift right of the taxi centerline; I only noticed it when it was continuing significantly right of centerline as the right main outboard tire began approaching close to the taxiway edge within a few feet and continuing that direction. Was about to key the mic and say something advisory when the jet suddenly corrected back left to the centerline, almost like a distracted driver in a lane. Would’ve been interesting to hear/see what was going on in that cockpit. Ultimately no harm/no foul, but by just about 5-10 seconds or so.

 

[Kingairer]

For us, everything heads-down is completed prior to taxi. The taxi checklist is only two items, and any changes to the box after taxi starts such as runway change, are accomplished by FO, and double checked out loud by same. The left seater’s job is to taxi and occupy themselves with doing that, as well as listening to the changes the FO states when complete. There’s no time where both heads should be down for other than making a quick verification or check of an item, while the jet is moving.

I did watch an Airbus once taxiing some distance ahead begin to drift right of the taxi centerline; I only noticed it when it was continuing significantly right of centerline as the right main outboard tire began approaching close to the taxiway edge within a few feet and continuing that direction. Was about to key the mic and say something advisory when the jet suddenly corrected back left to the centerline, almost like a distracted driver in a lane. Would’ve been interesting to hear/see what was going on in that cockpit. Ultimately no harm/no foul, but by just about 5-10 seconds or so.

I imagine that’s the same pretty much everywhere, captain has minimal heads down time.

 

[Skåning]

I did watch an Airbus once taxiing some distance ahead begin to drift right of the taxi centerline;

All 'Buses have tillers on the FO side, so the skipper can toss it over to them while they read the box and get caught up. It's a tool and can be used accordingly. Quite convenient when there's a long taxi out and the Boomer Capt has to hit the lav.

 

[MikeD]

All 'Buses have tillers on the FO side, so the skipper can toss it over to them while they read the box and get caught up.

Which is a very nice feature to have indeed, and should be a standard item in all the airliners in my opinion.

 

[Skåning]

...should be a standard item in all the airliners in my opinion.

It is standard, unless you're a manufacturer that rhymes with Boring

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It is standard, unless you're a manufacturer that rhymes with Boring

Don’t know if the CRJ-200 had it, I didn’t think it did. Been too long.

 

[derg]

You just need to work on your NPR voice.

“This is Derg and this is ’All Things Considered’. Today, in Massapequa…”

 

[derg]

What if there is a load change or a runway change on taxi out? We actually had a checklist for runway change that was pretty extensive. It took about 5 minutes for the F/O to do all that stuff. Capt is supposed to watch where he's going while verifying the F/O's work. It's recommended to stop and set the parking brake when doing this but I saw a crew do that at ORD once. Pissed off ground and they got even by having us taxi around in a box pattern and then stop until they were happy. This was at like 10pm at night during the covid.

We have “runway change items” (officially) but a lot of guys ask for the “boxed items”.

It’s some work but it mitigates and traps errors.

 

[DeltaAlphaNovember]

All 'Buses have tillers on the FO side, so the skipper can toss it over to them while they read the box and get caught up. It's a tool and can be used accordingly. Quite convenient when there's a long taxi out and the Boomer Capt has to hit the lav.

AA does not allow the FO to use the tiller. I would of course say if the captain was incapacitated that would be different.