All you aerobatics guys, I've got a question

Pilotforhire587

Pilotforhire587

Lycra Man
So I was doing a little dreaming tonight about when I get a job after commutair and can afford one but I would really like to own a good acro aircraft in the future. I am interested in a mid to high end aircraft, preferably a two seater but singles aren't out of the question, I really like the Pitts. So here are my questions,

Other than the S1 being a single seater vs. the S2, S3, and S12 being two, and the S12 being a radial, what are the differences between each model pitts. Details would be awesome, I am interested in everything from specs to performance, and would like to know differences between sub models like the S2B and S2C as well.

Looking at trade-a-plane pretty new S2b's seem to go for around 150k, anyone know what they go for new, loaded?


My last question is that for the money, are there other acro aircraft that are more capable or more fun to fly in general and why?


I know thats a lot to ask, acro is one part of aviation I haven't ventured into yet, at least not past basic multi turn spins. I hope to dive in this summer in a citab and a super decathalon and learn the basics.


Discuss, I want to read...
 
I can't give ya any advice. However, I share the same thoughts. I love watching some of the video's out there of aerobatics. I doubt I'll ever get the chance, but the second I do I'm takin it:D
 
Steve used to be based here in Oregon, and he showed me around his hangar once. Absolutely amazing workmanship, and some seriously impressive airplanes.
 
To answer your question a bit. 150 for a used S2B seems high to me. I would recommend searching for an S2c. You will wish you had bought the C. Wings and tail on the B are rounded, where as the C it is squared off, more surface area. Better stock prop and a different engine that usually does not have the crank AD. Easier to handle on the ground too the tailwheel was replaced with the intro of the C model.
 
Inverted said:
To answer your question a bit. 150 for a used S2B seems high to me. I would recommend searching for an S2c. You will wish you had bought the C. Wings and tail on the B are rounded, where as the C it is squared off, more surface area. Better stock prop and a different engine that usually does not have the crank AD. Easier to handle on the ground too the tailwheel was replaced with the intro of the C model.
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What are the performance difference between the B and C models? What do you think would be a more capable aircraft the S-1-11B or the S12?
 
You guys have it all wrong. If you're going to go with a Pitts, you need to get a model 12.

1387403.jpg


Besides, Waco would approve. It's got a round engine.
 
mshunter said:
You guys have it all wrong. If you're going to go with a Pitts, you need to get a model 12.

1387403.jpg


Besides, Waco would approve. It's got a round engine.
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The Pitts Model 12 gives me action in the pants. They have made a couple of lighter, single seat versions with the Vendeyev kicking out 400+HP. Yummy.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
What are the performance difference between the B and C models? What do you think would be a more capable aircraft the S-1-11B or the S12?
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The B and C are both 2 seat 260hp models. The added control surface of the C on the tail and wings make it more maneuverable. I think the S-1-11B is a more capable aircraft personally. The model 12 is a big airplane, slower roll rate etc.
 
Inverted said:
The B and C are both 2 seat 260hp models. The added control surface of the C on the tail and wings make it more maneuverable. I think the S-1-11B is a more capable aircraft personally. The model 12 is a big airplane, slower roll rate etc.
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That seems to be what I have gotten out of reading here this morning. Airbum is very informative. Would I be correct in saying the the S1-11B Super Duper Stinker is the newest and the most capable out of all of the pitts. I wish the S2C was as capable as the S1-11B.

The 12 looks extremely sexy. I love the radial up front but being that it was designed as a "gentlemans" airplane, I think I would want something with the higher roll rate and more responsive snap.
 
I would say the S-1-11 is the highest performance "out of the box" Pitts produced. Now you can take any Pitts and modify it. I have a buddy that has an S2S which has a 400hp Lycon, that thing is just ape crazy. Doing some Wolf mods to any Pitts would really bring out some positive improvements. If I were to criticize the Pitts on 2 main points, I would say the vertical penetration and roll rate are the most lacking features when compared to planes like the Extra or Edge. Anything that will help those lacking features would really make the Pitts a force to be reckoned with. Now neither of those are really going to matter in competition, but do matter for airshow performances. Also the Pitts doesn't really like to tumble(at least the S2B and C). You get one good tumble out of it and that's about it.
 
Inverted said:
I would say the S-1-11 is the highest performance "out of the box" Pitts produced. Now you can take any Pitts and modify it. I have a buddy that has an S2S which has a 400hp Lycon, that thing is just ape crazy. Doing some Wolf mods to any Pitts would really bring out some positive improvements. If I were to criticize the Pitts on 2 main points, I would say the vertical penetration and roll rate are the most lacking features when compared to planes like the Extra or Edge. Anything that will help those lacking features would really make the Pitts a force to be reckoned with. Now neither of those are really going to matter in competition, but do matter for airshow performances. Also the Pitts doesn't really like to tumble(at least the S2B and C). You get one good tumble out of it and that's about it.
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I think, after seeing Sean Tucker at numerous air shows the Wolf mods would fix, or atleast help the aircrafts ability to tumble. How do you make an airplane tumble?

Lets say you start at 120 to 150 knots what kind of vert penetration will you get from a pitts vs. an extra or the Edge 540?
I read that the roll rate on the S1-11B was close to 400dps, and the S2C was around 300, I think that would be plenty.


With the price for a new Pitts being much less than a 10 year old Extra I think the performance differences would have to be huge to make it worth it.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
Lets say you start at 120 to 150 knots what kind of vert penetration will you get from a pitts vs. an extra or the Edge 540?
I read that the roll rate on the S1-11B was close to 400dps, and the S2C was around 300, I think that would be plenty.


With the price for a new Pitts being much less than a 10 year old Extra I think the performance differences would have to be huge to make it worth it.
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It's kind of difficult to quantify and numerically compare the vertical performance of a Pitts to that of an Extra without some more specifics. The Pitts is significantly draggier than any of the unlimited class composite monoplanes and therefore carries less energy into the vertical plane.

That being said it takes a lot of skill to maximize the performance envelope of any of those machines. Chances are that, unless you're planning on competing at the national level or above, the performance advantages of a monoplane over a Pitts won't be worth the cash. Plus, the Pitts is a classic airplane that has earned 50+ years of endearing commentary by pilots from all backgrounds. It's got the soul and personality that an Extra doesn't.
 
Ollie said:
It's kind of difficult to quantify and numerically compare the vertical performance of a Pitts to that of an Extra without some more specifics. The Pitts is significantly draggier than any of the unlimited class composite monoplanes and therefore carries less energy into the vertical plane.

That being said it takes a lot of skill to maximize the performance envelope of any of those machines. Chances are that, unless you're planning on competing at the national level or above, the performance advantages of a monoplane over a Pitts won't be worth the cash. Plus, the Pitts is a classic airplane that has earned 50+ years of endearing commentary by pilots from all backgrounds. It's got the soul and personality that an Extra doesn't.
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Great point - I mean, how many pilots out there can REALLY utilize everything a Pitts can offer? Sure, if you're competing in Advanced or Unlimited you need the monoplane, but how many people really do that? My question has always been this - The Zivco Edge (and other monoplanes) have gobs of power, etc and seem to be cleaner that the Sukhoi with its blunt round engine - yet Sukhoi's still seem to win most of the international awards. Why is that? Is it just that the eastern bloc pilots are better, or is the Sukhoi really that superior? It would seem that an Edge could do anything a Sukhoi would do - but the Sukhoi's still win - why is that?

And, Svetlana Kapinina gives me actions in my pants.
 
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