Alaska Hawaiian Merger Serious Version

Roger Roger said:
The -9 is a bit better. I assume the FBW spoilers help a little with the roll feel. You also still have the weird “pause” in rotation. Your comments on the displays are right on, but I also feel compelled to complain about how the “HSI” on the PFD is still tiny and dumb when you have all that screen real estate.
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Not sure if yours are the same but when I flew a Max all of the engine gauges being a few inches further to the left was kind of a mind fark for a little bit.
 
JordanD said:
Not sure if yours are the same but when I flew a Max all of the engine gauges being a few inches further to the left was kind of a mind fark for a little bit.
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Way further left. And for whatever silly reason we generally always keep them on the CA side instead of on the side of the PF who might actually need to look at the damn things. Probably because that was how it was on the Wright Flyer.
 
JordanD said:
Not sure if yours are the same but when I flew a Max all of the engine gauges being a few inches further to the left was kind of a mind fark for a little bit.
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I feel like maybe there’s a short adjustment period the first minute or so of hand flying after I’ve been in NGs for a while but for the most part not noticeable.
 
Roger Roger said:
The -9 is a bit better. I assume the FBW spoilers help a little with the roll feel. You also still have the weird “pause” in rotation. Your comments on the displays are right on, but I also feel compelled to complain about how the “HSI” on the PFD is still tiny and dumb when you have all that screen real estate.
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I don't really notice the pause, but the lack of gear strut clunk when you rotate is a bit off-putting at first. "Are we in the air?"

Yep, like I said, we have a worthless two foot VSD but instruments I actually need to fly are all smaller. In reality the VSD is ever so slightly marginally more useful the the RAAS. In other words, also pointless.
 
Rocketman99 said:
I don't really notice the pause, but the lack of gear strut clunk when you rotate is a bit off-putting at first. "Are we in the air?"

Yep, like I said, we have a worthless two foot VSD but instruments I actually need to fly are all smaller. In reality the VSD is ever so slightly marginally more useful the the RAAS. In other words, also pointless.
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I feel like I noticed the rotation pause a lot in the beginning but I don’t so much now. Probably just have gotten the feel of it better.

I actually like the VSD but I’m also not very good at this so pictures help me
 
Rocketman99 said:
The 9 can't climb out of its own shadow. Why do you think we rarely use it much in OGG? Cause it can't get off the ground with anywhere close to a full load. In HNL, it can never take off on 8L unless we're half empty. Even in the dead of winter once you get to 20K, you're stuck climbing out at 600 fpm all the way to altitude no matter what speed you're flying. And hopefully you don't need to climb to try and get above weather because you won't be able to. They wasted money certifying it up to 410, 'cause it can't ever climb that high.

Now actually feeling/handling wise, the 9 flies fairly nicely. It's just that performance in on par with a Geo Metro. It's a worthless pig. Also love that we have a 2 foot long VSD and a massive compass rose that no one has ever looked at on those giant tv screens, but our actual PFD is smaller than in the NGs. Such a fail on so many levels. However, it sips on gas so the clowns who only ever sit at desks and look at spreadsheets love it because they never have to deal with all the operational shortcomings out on the line when they're in the crystal palace of yes men.
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Honestly it seems most airlines use the MAX8 to Hawaii. All of my LIH and OGG flights so far have been in an -800NG. I’ve been to HNL several times in a MAX without issue, though it’s been a while and I’ve only done one Hawaii this year.


The MAX doesn’t like fast speed climb outs. I see guys changing the speed to 290-300 knots or more on the climb page. That’s when you get the bad climb rate/performance. I accept what’s the default CI climb speed schedule. Get to cruise level first. Then speed whatever you need/want/planned.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Honestly it seems most airlines use the MAX8 to Hawaii. All of my LIH and OGG flights so far have been in an -800NG. I’ve been to HNL several times in a MAX without issue, though it’s been a while and I’ve only done one Hawaii this year.


The MAX doesn’t like fast speed climb outs. I see guys changing the speed to 290-300 knots or more on the climb page. That’s when you get the bad climb rate/performance. I accept what’s the default CI climb speed schedule. Get to cruise level first. Then speed whatever you need/want/planned.
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Exactly, the 9 has no performance. The MAX8s don't seem to suffer that same problem.

I don't find that to be the case. Slower speed climbs increase the rate...to about 700 fpm above 20K instead of 600. "Max rate" is a misnomer in the 9.
 
Rocketman99 said:
Way further left. And for whatever silly reason we generally always keep them on the CA side instead of on the side of the PF who might actually need to look at the damn things. Probably because that was how it was on the Wright Flyer.
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IMO as a CA, when SHTF, I’d rather the engine instruments be in one consistent place all the time.

I have yet to have a FO demand the gauges on his side. Why you looking at engine gauges on landing? As a FO my eyes were on the runway / touchdown area and LOC/GS + airspeed indicator with its trend. That’s all you need to know if you need to add or take away power.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
IMO as a CA, when SHTF, I’d rather the engine instruments be in one consistent place all the time.

I have yet to have a FO demand the gauges on his side. Why you looking at engine gauges on landing? As a FO my eyes were on the runway / touchdown area and LOC/GS + airspeed indicator with its trend. That’s all you need to know if you need to add or take away power.
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You should go re-read the indications for windshear, and then explain to the class why you’ll now be incorporating the engine indications into your scan.

For the 737, I know for a Flaps 30, I need approx 58-62% N1 (68/69% for a 40). If I’m varying off that by much, that’s getting my spidey senses tingling.

I’m sure AS has it in your FOM/Vol1 or whatever y’all use over there, that “HGS shall be used for windshear conditions”…I know at QX it was.

We built a CQ training scenario where Capt’s, in particular, got into a windshear situation that they would get tunnel vision in the HUD. You’d be so focused on it that you’d not notice being around 70% torque (vs 28-30% for normal).

Bottom line, don’t be a HUD cripple and do an L shaped scan so you keep the engine indications in it.
 
Rocketman99 said:
Way further left. And for whatever silly reason we generally always keep them on the CA side instead of on the side of the PF who might actually need to look at the damn things. Probably because that was how it was on the Wright Flyer.
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I was asking why we didn’t move the engine instruments to the PF side during my MAX differences training. 2020 sometime I think. I kept hitting the engine instruments button and showing how easy it was to move them to the PF side. The instructor and there were two of them was finally like “we decided to do it that way just because and that’s how it is.”

Pretty sure if you check the way back machine I was complaining about this on JC and the same people telling you how wrong you are, they are same people telling me i was wrong in 2020 or 2021.

The schoolhouse used to emphasize keeping the power stable on approaches. For a 150K 900ER you needed to hold 56% ish

They don’t talk about this anymore…
 
SurferLucas said:
You should go re-read the indications for windshear, and then explain to the class why you’ll now be incorporating the engine indications into your scan.

For the 737, I know for a Flaps 30, I need approx 58-62% N1 (68/69% for a 40). If I’m varying off that by much, that’s getting my spidey senses tingling.

I’m sure AS has it in your FOM/Vol1 or whatever y’all use over there, that “HGS shall be used for windshear conditions”…I know at QX it was.

We built a CQ training scenario where Capt’s, in particular, got into a windshear situation that they would get tunnel vision in the HUD. You’d be so focused on it that you’d not notice being around 70% torque (vs 28-30% for normal).

Bottom line, don’t be a HUD cripple and do an L shaped scan so you keep the engine indications in it.
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I mean, I guess. PLA awareness is a thing too though. I know approx what PLA a flaps 30 should be. If my hand is outstretched more or if it’s stretched less, something may be brewing.


In really gusty conditions, IMO, the HUD is useless. Then I prefer the PFD indications.



The Airbus was the one I’d be always glancing at engine indications, as the PLA was fixed with AT on. The PLA was useless on that plane. But on the 737, the lever moves.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I mean, I guess. PLA awareness is a thing too though. I know approx what PLA a flaps 30 should be. If my hand is outstretched more or if it’s stretched less, something may be brewing.


In really gusty conditions, IMO, the HUD is useless. Then I prefer the PFD indications.



The Airbus was the one I’d be always glancing at engine indications, as the PLA was fixed with AT on. The PLA was useless on that plane. But on the 737, the lever moves.
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Hasn't this website taught you anything about data > feelings?
 
roundout said:
Hasn't this website taught you anything about data > feelings?
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Yes. But this started with someone saying one “feels” the engine indications are too far away on the MAX for the FO.

I do think one consistent position of engine indications are important for the CA. Just IMO, for when things go wrong.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I mean, I guess. PLA awareness is a thing too though. I know approx what PLA a flaps 30 should be. If my hand is outstretched more or if it’s stretched less, something may be brewing.


In really gusty conditions, IMO, the HUD is useless. Then I prefer the PFD indications.



The Airbus was the one I’d be always glancing at engine indications, as the PLA was fixed with AT on. The PLA was useless on that plane. But on the 737, the lever moves.
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Wait what?!
I don't fly a 737 but when it's super gusty the HUD for me is imperative, especially when I'm PM.
 
mikecweb said:
Wait what?!
I don't fly a 737 but when it's super gusty the HUD for me is imperative, especially when I'm PM.
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I’m not going to knock him on that, I really don’t like the HUD in gusty situations. Too much “dancing” of the cue.

4000+hrs of flying an HUD, and it still is my least fav thing to use the HGS for.
 
SurferLucas said:
I’m not going to knock him on that, I really don’t like the HUD in gusty situations. Too much “dancing” of the cue.

4000+hrs of flying an HUD, and it still is my least fav thing to use the HGS for.
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Exactly. The cue and everything is all over the place.


The 737 HUD for me is basically for takeoff, tailstrike during rotation, tailstrike during landing, and CAT II/III approaches.
 
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