Agree to disagree and it's a requirement for us as PM. I haven't really noticed any "dancing" on our airplane. I don't program it for takeoff 99% of the time, I find it most useful with the EFVS for storm avoidance and for approach for SA as a pilot monitor. It'll be a sad day when i won't have one if i'm forced back to the right seat.
Alaska Hawaiian Merger Serious Version
- Thread starter alaskadrifter
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You guys dual HUD?
For us, it’s CA side only. And only required to be used on the -800/900/MAX during takeoff and landings for tailstrike awareness. That’s the (only) official requirement. Of course, it can be MEL’ed/deferred.
With the HUD coupled to an autoland approach, we can take the lowest RVR of 400 for a CATIII approved runway with at least 3/3/3 on the plate.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
It's required because of the tailstrike indicator. It's dumb the FO doesn't have one. But it probably saves a lot of money.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You do realize SWA doesn’t even have autoland? See how you’d complain then. Plus many 737 operators don’t even have a HUD.
No which is why I'll miss it
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
This has got to be some of the worst thought out logic for an argument ever. Really?
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
as PM I definitely include the N1s in my scan on final. Flew with a lot of FOs coming straight from props at the last gig and because of the different feel to power management on jets it was very common to see new guys oscillate between 35% and 70% N1 without realizing it. I did the same thing when new on the Lear.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
This was false as of a year ago. Especially with having to do the unreliable airspeed stuff they emphasized knowing your ballpark power settings. At least the instructors I worked with did.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I haven't heard anything about it in a long time. I used to hear about it every briefing. Just goes to show you that everyone's experience is different.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Guys, it’s a 737. Not the Space Shuttle.
It isn’t that complicated.
It isn’t that complicated.
Not sure I'll hold it
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
laughs in the Gen Z aeronautical anti-theft device known as a mechanical airspeed indicator
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I'm not opposed to swapping the engine gauges to the PF side if that is what people want. But I'm also not really an N1 reference person. We fly a ton of variants, with greatly differing gross weights. It probably isn't that much mental real estate to memorize a target N1 for each variant at typical landing weight, but I guess I'm just not super great at number remembering like that, nor do I think it really matters. I also come from a place where we don't do any of that, to include computing approach speed (other than trimming on-speed AoA), simply because there are a ton of variables. Tailwind vs headwind dramatically effects your VSI for a 3.0 glideslope for example. We also have very large variations in gross weight at landing that are not entirely predicable, not to mention external configurations that fly differently, hence I think, the lack of what others might perceive as discipline and book knowledge. Gusts are pretty normal at my pilot base/domicile/anywhere north of here, and require some reactive throttle movement outside the range you mention, even outside of true wind shear conditions. I guess that is all to say that my spidey sense for this starts going off anytime I need to make larger throttle movements without having made a corresponding major change in pitch attitude/anything else. Don't really need to reference the N1 gauge for that. Just what my hand is having to do to keep the speed tape in the right place. I'm probably overly simplistic, and maybe even exhibiting bad habits. But that is my take, which at maybe a few hundred hours in type, is super valuable I'm sure
///AMG
Well-Known Member
100% agree, but I also wonder why the f some people are so (apparently) aggressive with their rotation? IMO, if you were to, let's just suppose, push with erroneous numbers, general experience flying airplanes should prevent one from blindly continuing that 2-3 deg/sec rate when the airplane isn't doing the normal things and banging the tail before you realize it. I'm sure the training dept doesn't like it, but just like every other airplane I've flown, I do a mini rotation, wait for the wheels to get light and to feel the wing actually flying, and then I re-apply that rotation/pull. If my Vr was 20 knots slow, I would delay that second rotation until I felt the wing flying, just out of habit, and not bang the tail I don't think. To hell with the TERPS/second segment numbers at that point. Granted I've had like one rotation in my whole time flying this hog, where it just did its own thing, uncommanded, probably a gust of some sort, and I had to apply forward pressure to stop it, while the CA just assumed I'd f'd it up. But that isn't what we are really talking about with tail strikes I don't think. And it was easily fixed well before that happened, in my case.
“I know what time it is already, how FAST am I going?”
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I'm not opposed to swapping the engine gauges to the PF side if that is what people want. But I'm also not really an N1 reference person. We fly a ton of variants, with greatly differing gross weights. It probably isn't that much mental real estate to memorize a target N1 for each variant at typical landing weight, but I guess I'm just not super great at number remembering like that, nor do I think it really matters. I also come from a place where we don't do any of that, to include computing approach speed (other than trimming on-speed AoA), simply because there are a ton of variables. Tailwind vs headwind dramatically effects your VSI for a 3.0 glideslope for example. We also have very large variations in gross weight at landing that are not entirely predicable, not to mention external configurations that fly differently, hence I think, the lack of what others might perceive as discipline and book knowledge. Gusts are pretty normal at my pilot base/domicile/anywhere north of here, and require some reactive throttle movement outside the range you mention, even outside of true wind shear conditions. I guess that is all to say that my spidey sense for this starts going off anytime I need to make larger throttle movements without having made a corresponding major change in pitch attitude/anything else. Don't really need to reference the N1 gauge for that. Just what my hand is having to do to keep the speed tape in the right place. I'm probably overly simplistic, and maybe even exhibiting bad habits. But that is my take, which at maybe a few hundred hours in type, is super valuable I'm sure
Exactly all this!
roundout
VNAV monitor
I know but I just wanted to score a cheap Internet point by razzing you.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I've only seen it once at ATL. It's always a combination of factors. The runway has some pretty noticeable grade changes. Right when we started going uphill it was time to rotate and the guy really yoinked one the yoke. Tailstrike indicator was moving rapidly toward the little airplane and my hands came up to push forward on the yoke.
Not fun.
I'm probably overly simplistic, and maybe even exhibiting bad habits. But that is my take, which at maybe a few hundred hours in type, is super valuable I'm sure
Airliners and HUDs.
. As if airliners are in some 60 degree dive bomb pass, or in some offensive knife fight air to air, where there isn’t even one second to take a look down at the panel and scan something lest disaster occur…..