AA high speed aborted takeoff at DCA, near miss 5/29/24

Pilot Fighter said:
One thing that bothers me about this audio is the KA pilot acted like having already touched down was a deal-breaker for a go-around.

I can think of some scenarios where I’d go-around after touching down. Obviously, timing matters.

I’m curious about subsequent coms. Wondering if conflict was quickly described. “KA, get on brakes, rejected TO crossing your runway at x feet.” Wondering if KA understood that he might have to go four-wheeling.
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The pitch of the blades change when there’s weight on wheels. The engines also spool down to ground idle. It may have been difficult or impossible to go around, depending on conditions.
 
killbilly said:
No.

not just no. Hell no. IAD is way more than “20 minutes more.”
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I suppose there is a difference between what it is and what it should be. The real point is DCA shouldn’t be seeing any airline traffic, much less the amount it is. The roads need some work too…
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
The pitch of the blades change when there’s weight on wheels. The engines also spool down to ground idle. It may have been difficult or impossible to go around, depending on conditions.
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Agreed. I was thinking of getting the call immediately after touch-down and you’re still carrying some speed.
 
invadertim said:
I suppose there is a difference between what it is and what it should be. The real point is DCA shouldn’t be seeing any airline traffic, much less the amount it is. The roads need some work too…
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Why the anti-DCA stance?
 
bimmerphile said:
i don't think you need to shut it down, but the arrival/departure rate could probably stand for a little more fudge factor. I’m not sure of a tighter normal op with intersecting runways in the country


(also they should reopen it to non-turbine GA, save the DASSP or whatever for the big planes that can dent stuff)
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This! LGA on a Saturday evening is a perfect example of this. It’s such a smooth operation compared to the weekday. Folks have been running around screaming doom and gloom and business is slowing down but I’ve been seeing the opposite. We’ve been running the metaphorical machine at 100% for a few years while also trying to stuff 15lbs of crap into a bag only suitable for 5lbs and the reality is you can only run a machine at 100% for so long before it fails.
 
killbilly said:
Why the anti-DCA stance?
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Maybe because it’s an unnecessary waste of resources and it still exists mainly to service the needs and egos of some in DC?
Also, they have two other perfectly usable airports in the area, so if they want a third maybe they should find a better site, or meter DCA to a traffic level that is more reasonable considering it’s limitations.
 
No reason to close the most convenient airport to Washington DC. I’m amazed they move the amount of traffic they do in there honestly. Rather than close the airport, closing a runway may be an answer, but simply ATC just needs to be better.
 
invadertim said:
I suppose there is a difference between what it is and what it should be. The real point is DCA shouldn’t be seeing any airline traffic, much less the amount it is. The roads need some work too…
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There is already a fantastic light rail, I’m sure they could increase frequency/add express runs for less than adding more road lanes.
 
bimmerphile said:
i don't think you need to shut it down, but the arrival/departure rate could probably stand for a little more fudge factor. I’m not sure of a tighter normal op with intersecting runways in the country
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BOS has to be up there too with their “yo dawg I herd u liek runways” layout
 
Beep said:
Maybe because it’s an unnecessary waste of resources and it still exists mainly to service the needs and egos of some in DC?
Also, they have two other perfectly usable airports in the area, so if they want a third maybe they should find a better site, or meter DCA to a traffic level that is more reasonable considering it’s limitations.
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What waste of resources compared to other places? I legitimately don’t understand this position - does this mean you also believe DAL should be closed down too? MDW? SNA?

Metering traffic I can understand. The idea of “two perfectly usable airports in the area” simply doesn’t track though. The ability to cross the Potomac (major choke points) and limited highway (vs traffic needs) make that a non-starter for the area. Too densely populated.

It would be theoretically possible to close DCA and shift all of that traffic to IAD and BWI but the level of infrastructure required to make THAT practical is, I believe, massively prohibitive.
 
phill1174 said:
This! LGA on a Saturday evening is a perfect example of this. It’s such a smooth operation compared to the weekday. Folks have been running around screaming doom and gloom and business is slowing down but I’ve been seeing the opposite. We’ve been running the metaphorical machine at 100% for a few years while also trying to stuff 15lbs of crap into a bag only suitable for 5lbs and the reality is you can only run a machine at 100% for so long before it fails.
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Saturdays are super slow days in NY.
 
phill1174 said:
This! LGA on a Saturday evening is a perfect example of this. It’s such a smooth operation compared to the weekday. Folks have been running around screaming doom and gloom and business is slowing down but I’ve been seeing the opposite. We’ve been running the metaphorical machine at 100% for a few years while also trying to stuff 15lbs of crap into a bag only suitable for 5lbs and the reality is you can only run a machine at 100% for so long before it fails.
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This would be like Family Airlines selling tickets at $15/each, selling out every flight, and then saying “how can we fail, we are full on every flight!”

The cracks in the economy are there and getting worse. Just because you don’t see it…
 
///AMG said:
"our runway is fairly short, our glideslope is steep, and if you don't exit by B8 you go to purgatory because 98 SWA and DAL planes just skull f****ked their brakes"

okay okay B8 isn't that hard to make, but holy hell, that airport is like a carrier flight deck......there is absolutely no room for anything. Just when you thought things were gonna get moving, some delta yahoo lands, there is nowhere for them and their hats to go, and you end up in the Mexican standoff, 3 planes, all jets that can't undo being in a 3 way nose to nose situation. Throw in a couple tug operators in training that threw towbars in the alleyway, and things grind to an immediate stop. And then 5 more southwest planes land
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The first time I ever saw a 787 in person was at KSAN, I was working on a Falcon 900 on the Signature ramp opposite of the terminal and it went rolling by. I was changing oil pumps or some other engine related nonsense and I noticed a "large" airplane taxiing so I stopped what I was doing and I watched it roll by. It took a second to register, the captain waved, I waved back and went back to working on engines. That particular trip was a nightmare that took two unneeded extra days due to bad parts off the shelf, but I think I remember the 787 because it was the only bright spot on that job.
 
killbilly said:
Why the anti-DCA stance?
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My feeling is that DCA really isn’t a safe airport, for a variety of reasons. It’s a small, congested airport with approaches that can be difficult to fly even for experienced pilots. It’s further complicated by its proximity to central DC & the Pentagon, with a variety of restrictions making flying in and out of there more difficult than needs be. It’s poorly laid out, its location next to the Potomac river often sees it fogged in, and its main runway is short, with little room for error. DCA tower is the only FAA facility I have on speed dial in my phone, the result of spending an hour and twenty minutes trying to simply speak on ground once.

If DCA was the only airport serving DC I might feel differently, but it’s not. IAD is a modern, clean airport well equipped to handle any air traffic DC has. The main reason DCA is still around is convenience. I also personally suspect a fair number of the flights in and out of there are primarily due to airlines trying to curry favor with elected officials. There are people in this trade who have no issue with some flyover state rock farmer having to drive 3 hours one way to hop on an RJ; but the concept that bigger town folks deserve places like DCA and MDW and LGA because driving an extra 40 minutes or taking the train is an outrage just doesn’t work for me.

I’m fully aware DCA will outlive me and my kids, and likely any grandkids I might see. I’ve flown in and out of there for personal travel too. This doesn’t mean that I won’t continue to advocate (i.e. yell at the clouds) for its closure.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
One thing that bothers me about this audio is the KA pilot acted like having already touched down was a deal-breaker for a go-around.

I can think of some scenarios where I’d go-around after touching down. Obviously, timing matters.

I’m curious about subsequent coms. Wondering if conflict was quickly described. “KA, get on brakes, rejected TO crossing your runway at x feet.” Wondering if KA understood that he might have to go four-wheeling.
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I've been on board in the back for a few "touch and goes" in jets and seen many more. Obviously while you still have the interia to get back up, that's preferable to doing anything other than exiting on a taxiway with the plane intact... especially in a GA plane lol.
 
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