9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary

v1valarob said:
So we have people arguing over a seperate scale for 108 people!? Really?!?

That also backs up my claim that most of our SF3 CAs wouldnt have even upgraded if they had been over at XJ with the same DOH.
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Someone stated above about how if it's just 108 people then it shouldn't be an issue but I am not on the same page. For one, it's more than 108 guys. Secondly, everyone on here lately seems focused on the captains but the FO's get the shorter end of the stick. As much as 5-6 an hour per year over the 5 years.

Gonzo said:
Jrsyguy I have no dog in this fight (I don't work at 9L,9E, or XJ), but reading over the TA I think you are looking at a lot more then $.50 a hour. My guess is with soft money and work rules you will be looking at 4K-5K more a year in bring home pay.
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Soft money will never equate to 4-5 grand a year or more. No way, no how. More like 4-5 hundred a year. $1 an hour increase in compensation is much more valuable then soft money provisions.

WalterSobchak said:
Q's getting a raw deal? 6 dollar raise? You can't base it on the XJ Q/200 rates because XJ had NO Q's at the time of the merger therefore no basis for that rate. There for all you can do is base it off the existing rates and step it towards XJ rates like they are which is actually building towards a better future. Why did you go to Colgan in the first place? You were fine with the current rates and work rules, but the new ones aren't acceptable? You want Mesaba's rates why didn't you come here first? I just can't figure out what you really want? Dude just write a rep and vote no.
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Mesabas current contract does indeed have provisions for q rates. It specifically says prop 70 seats are to be payed at 50 seat jet rates.
 
I completely agree that B scales are dangerous. Also, v1valarob, how often does the typical regional pilot make full use of their health insurance & disability? Exactly. I would MUCH rather have an increase to XJ's current rates than have the other benefits that you are talking about.
 
CEWLGUY said:
Funny how neither addressed my questions, just responded to my comments...and actually weird that Joe has gone from spreading as much discourse and mis-information for months, to now being a big cheerleader for the JCBA. Glad to see that this has addressed his issues. Also, I am well aware of how quickly the negotiations went, but, I would rather stick it out for a few more weeks, and sew up some of these issues that will plague this pilot group for at least...5 years? The TA is good, but it has some issues, issues that are so wrong that they can't be made up for with a nifty scheduling section. I would like to prescribe to all of you that don't think this B scale is dangerous to re(read) flying the Line volumes I and II.
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LOL. YES! You have found it, the secret square! If I'm happy with it that must be bad for you because I'm a grenade tosser. It is impossible and unthinkable that I can read the TA, including the payscales, talk to their reps and say, "you know what that makes a lot of sense," and still be a muck stirrer. Am I turning into Jtrain? The guy everyone loves to hate?

More I say! More!!! I love it!
 
v1valarob said:
I can't wait for the agency shop section to take affect.
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Not for nothing, but this attitude makes my skin crawl. It's like children on a playground screaming "If you don't play my game my way with my rules I'll have you fired!"

Yes, it's the law (not that I agree with it).

Should it be used to end an argument because someone doesn't put 100% faith into everything ALPA does? Absolutely not.
 
Saabomatic said:
I completely agree that B scales are dangerous. Also, v1valarob, how often does the typical regional pilot make full use of their health insurance & disability? Exactly. I would MUCH rather have an increase to XJ's current rates than have the other benefits that you are talking about.
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How often do I use my car insurance? How often do pilots REALLY get sick out there that we should be expending negotiating capital for them. Can't we just leave them behind? :sarcasm: on top of :sarcasm:

I was born in the wrong decade.
 
Saabomatic said:
I completely agree that B scales are dangerous. Also, v1valarob, how often does the typical regional pilot make full use of their health insurance & disability? Exactly. I would MUCH rather have an increase to XJ's current rates than have the other benefits that you are talking about.
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It's a scale that in 5 years will not be used. If your a XJ CA now on the Saab and your still a Saab CA in 5 years, then I don't know what's wrong with you. If your a XJ FO on the Saab now, hopefully within 2 - 3 years you'll be looking at the CA scales, I'll even provide a box of kleenex to wipe away the tears brought on from the 108 guys out of 3000 that are on a different scale.
 
Rob, I get your point about the number being insignificant, but it's actually 216 pilots, not 108. 108 FO's go with those Captains. :)
 
TristarJS30 said:
Not for nothing, but this attitude makes my skin crawl. It's like children on a playground screaming "If you don't play my game my way with my rules I'll have you fired!"

Yes, it's the law (not that I agree with it).

Should it be used to end an argument because someone doesn't put 100% faith into everything ALPA does? Absolutely not.
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It makes my skin crawl when I pay my dues, and someone doesn't, yet they still get to reap the rewards of a contract negotiated by a union that they don't even contribute too.

I didn't say you need to have 100% faith in your union.
 
Wow... Umm.... I am actually having a hard time coming up with a proper term for this sheer level of sort sighted thinking.

I mean holy crap, you don't want medical. I'm guessing you also don't want a 401k, retirement, or any protection for your future. Nothing will ever happen to you will it? Ever plan on having a kid?better have the insurrance before you discover you are..its not cheap.
 
v1valarob said:
It makes my skin crawl when I pay my dues, and someone doesn't, yet they still get to reap the rewards of a contract negotiated by a union that they don't even contribute too.

I didn't say you need to have 100% faith in your union.
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I really don't have a clue who he is or if it's worth defending, but just for the record:

He didn't say he wasn't paying his dues or was going to stop paying. He stated he believed he was overpaying for the product he received ("Not worth his dues"). That's why I felt using the agency shop laws was a bit of an over reaction.
 
TristarJS30 said:
I really don't have a clue who he is or if it's worth defending, but just for the record:

He didn't say he wasn't paying his dues or was going to stop paying. He stated he believed he was overpaying for the product he received ("Not worth his dues"). That's why I felt using the agency shop laws was a bit of an over reaction.
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Eh, ok, I did go a little over board.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Wow... Umm.... I am actually having a hard time coming up with a proper term for this sheer level of sort sighted thinking.

I mean holy crap, you don't want medical. I'm guessing you also don't want a 401k, retirement, or any protection for your future. Nothing will ever happen to you will it? Ever plan on having a kid?better have the insurrance before you discover you are..its not cheap.
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But EVERYONE gets all that other stuff in the contract. But to say the Q shouldn't get more because they never have or that saab guys should get paid less then the guy who they hand the plane over to just isn't right.

Not one person has commented on the thought of how a pinnacle pilot would feel if they were given less then mesaba to fly a crj 2/9.

The other argument I have heard several times is since the saabs are outdate they shouldnt be payed fairly. Well the CRJ 2's are outdated and not long for this world with ever increasing fuel prices. Should we just take from them and give more to the 900s?
 
Saabomatic said:
This TA is absolutely TERRIBLE for me as a 9L FO. Two different pay rates for flying the same equipment for what will be the same company is absolute rubbish. 9L was thrown under the bus. Right now, ALPA isn't worth my dues.
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Just curious, if Colgan had gone at it alone, what do you think you would have gotten? Do you think you would have gotten a better deal?

JrsyGuy said:
Soft money will never equate to 4-5 grand a year or more. No way, no how. More like 4-5 hundred a year. $1 an hour increase in compensation is much more valuable then soft money provisions.
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JrsyGUY - you do know that the .25 cent raise in per diem alone will net you very close to $1,000 extra a year, right? Of course, I guess it's not "soft money" but the point it - it's a raise of $0.25 which will result in $1,000.00 more clams in your pocket..

Imagine what things like 4 hour min day on a 1 leg day will do for you..
 
I'm running out of popcorn. Hold on guys, I'll be right back. This is a pretty action packed thread!

Few more pages and I can see threats of bodily harm and sabotage.
 
Tram said:
Well.. You could call it ignorant.. but ignorance is "innocent." Stupid, well that on the other hand, takes commitment.. I'd say he's fully committed..
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You really need to steer way clear of name calling man. We are all adults. If you don't agree then leave it at that.
 
JrsyGuy said:
Soft money will never equate to 4-5 grand a year or more. No way, no how. More like 4-5 hundred a year. $1 an hour increase in compensation is much more valuable then soft money provisions.
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My guess is Colgan is your first airline job.
Soft money is big if you know how to work the system. I avg $500-$600 a month in soft money and you are going to have better work rules then I work under. In fact my best month ever was June of this year I had a little over $2,500 in soft time.
 
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