Scabs

[butt]

I'll never understand the whole scab thing... Every time the topic is brought up, all I see is screaming and name calling. It reminds me of religion discussions...

Anyways, I always try to see everything from both points of view. I make it a personal rule for myself to only make judgements based on sound logical arguments. "DIE SCAB ARGH" is not a sound logical argument, it's a overblown emotional response.

I can see both points of view. I can understand why someone would get pissed off when a scab takes their job. If I enjoy my job, I am happy with my pay, why should I give all that up because some others feel what they have isn't enough? If I see a job that I'm happy doing (good pay, benefits, etc.), then why should I have to pass it up because other people feel it's not good enough for them?

 

[aloft]

I'll say it again: I don't care if you have a dad who was in the biz, or how many times you've read Flying The Line. If you don't have FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE as a pilot in a Pt 121 operation, you only THINK you know what you're talking about.

In terms some of you may better understand: no matter how many times a virgin has pleasured himself, he has no idea what sex is like. And unless you have FIRSTHAND (pardon the pun) EXPERIENCE, your opinions carry no weight on the subject.

 

[DZERO]

You still have medical insurance while on strike.

Depends on the situation...Back in 89 when EAL went on strike, mgmt "locked out" the rampers and mechs the day the cooling off period was to end. So they got sent home. My dad cleaned out his locker and left, along with pretty much everyone else. Everyone who honored the line was shown to be terminated. Along with that went medical benefits.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

I'll say it again: I don't care if you have a dad who was in the biz, or how many times you've read Flying The Line. If you don't have FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE as a pilot in a Pt 121 operation, you only THINK you know what you're talking about.

So please tell us which strike you were involved with. Tell us how it displaced your family. Tell us how normal activities remained during the strike. Tell us what you told the kids as Thanksgiving and Christmas would be spent in a strike again.

Please tell us

 

[OldTownPilot]

I'll say it again: I don't care if you have a dad who was in the biz, or how many times you've read Flying The Line. If you don't have FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE as a pilot in a Pt 121 operation, you only THINK you know what you're talking about.

In terms some of you may better understand: no matter how many times a virgin has pleasured himself, he has no idea what sex is like. And unless you have FIRSTHAND (pardon the pun) EXPERIENCE, your opinions carry no weight on the subject.

And where does your "first hand" experience that you are preaching about come from that allows you to say "shut up clueless"?

 

[Seggy]

Sorry I cut off the rest of that sentence, but ultimately I hope any man would put his family's welfare above anything and everything and get his hustle on and do anything legal to provide for his family. Personally if I were to ever be in that situation to strike, it would only mean having steak 5 of the 7 days. For others, it simply means not eating at all and those are the people I would give a pass to. Lastly, those are the people I'm speaking of but for some reason it's being taken as a personal "what-you-would-do" when I clearly stated that I wouldn't strike at all, I'd just find another job.

Note: If anybody has any questions/comments aimed at this see if you can find your answer in the last paragraph, if you can't then we will always wonder!!!!!!

Ed you are a great guy. Don't defend scabs though. No free passes given out.

 

[Sprint100]

I still find it amazing that some really cool cats that I know personally aren't getting the idea of family first.
I'll only retouch this subject for the homie Max in regards to his question and add a little clarification. Given my situation, I have options so I would neither strike nor "scab", I'd just get another job. It would suck having to get another job, but striking muddies the waters and scabbing muddies the waters.
Oh yeah, Tram you seriously need to get it straight. You called me a scab, therefore that worthless comment was directed at me in the context you put it in.
Lastly, I'm all about taking care of your family first. For whatever reason, if you're living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to strike then I would say don't. This "gang bangin'-takin sides-blind to the other side" mentality is ridiculous and juvenile.

 

[FlyChicaga]

I'll say it again: I don't care if you have a dad who was in the biz, or how many times you've read Flying The Line. If you don't have FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE as a pilot in a Pt 121 operation, you only THINK you know what you're talking about.

In terms some of you may better understand: no matter how many times a virgin has pleasured himself, he has no idea what sex is like. And unless you have FIRSTHAND (pardon the pun) EXPERIENCE, your opinions carry no weight on the subject.

I guess the same could be said for your contributions to the Blue Angels Crash thread? Do you have firsthand experience as a fighter pilot, or are you basing your opinions on what you have heard from your friends and acquaintances in military fighter squadrons?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I still find it amazing that some really cool cats that I know personally aren't getting the idea of family first.

I don't think it's that, really. It's kind of like when you're in the military - your whole family has to be on board with you.

 

[Sprint100]

I don't think it's that, really. It's kind of like when you're in the military - your whole family has to be on board with you.

I can see it much, much better through that analogy, because there are lots of occupations like that and I never linked aviation as one of those occupations.

 

[Tram]

Oh yeah, Tram you seriously need to get it straight. You called me a scab, therefore that worthless comment was directed at me in the context you put it in..

Oh, I think I have it pretty straight.. Although, I will allow you a bit of wiggle room..

What you said was:

Puh-lease, when it comes to feeding my family, that comes before any job or being labeled as a scab.

Which means given a strike situation you could do one of two things...

Either:

A.) Scab
B.) Get a part time job painting pipes at the local paper mill for minimum wage..

Given all your pro-scab sentiment, it is easy to see which side of the fence you'd hop to..

To support/condone scabbing is just as bad as being one..

You obviously support those who "have a legitimate reason" which is complete Bravo Sierra, thus making you one in the same..

Since you love analogies, it's akin to condoning what a child molestor does.. Are you a child molestor (scab) obviously not.. but if you condone what said child molestor (scab) has done.. You are no better than he..

Or how about this.. You are soo pro-family, which rocks, I too am extremely pro-family.. It's sorta like.. You pilot brethren are your family also.. and scabbing is akin to your family trying to keep invaders out of the house and you walking up and opening the door..

Say what you like.. give passes to who you like..

As far as I am concerned, scabs and their friends are worthless..

 

[Tram]

So please tell us which strike you were involved with.

He's never struck at an airline, at least not in the pilot ranks.. So he is just as clueless as the rest of us who have never struck..

Unless of course, someone in his immediate family struck.. but then.. it doesn't matter.. It's like a virgin.. well you know..

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I still find it amazing that some really cool cats that I know personally aren't getting the idea of family first.
I'll only retouch this subject for the homie Max in regards to his question and add a little clarification. Given my situation, I have options so I would neither strike nor "scab", I'd just get another job. It would suck having to get another job, but striking muddies the waters and scabbing muddies the waters.
Oh yeah, Tram you seriously need to get it straight. You called me a scab, therefore that worthless comment was directed at me in the context you put it in.
Lastly, I'm all about taking care of your family first. For whatever reason, if you're living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to strike then I would say don't. This "gang bangin'-takin sides-blind to the other side" mentality is ridiculous and juvenile.

Edwin, MTSU kinda re-educated you to the game, allow me to go further.

If you are considering an aviation career, know that it is a career and not a job. A career should be a life long employment situation based on specialized skills.

You claim that you would never strike, but never scab. Knowing all that you do about what it takes to be a pilot the blood, sweat, tears and personal self sacrifice isn't this career worth saving if it came under attack? By those who might threathen your ability to make a liveable wage and care for your family?

Being a pilot is a specialized skill. We have no national seniority system. So simply leaving XXX airline because of strike woo's means that you lose company seniorty and pay. If you go to another airline, or possibly even a non aviation job, if you were making decent or above average pay at your previous career, you'd still start on the bottom. How then could you take care of your family.

Saying that you'd just find another job is like getting a small repairable dent in that M45 you want so badly, and saying "eff it, it will take too much time to take the car to be repaired and get a rental. So I'll just go out and buy a new car." Not willing to stand and with your brothers, fellow pilots who are putting their careers and family at possible risk to better both is almost that same.

An extreme example but I hope it came accorss clearly.

 

[dingo222]

I don't think it's that, really. It's kind of like when you're in the military - your whole family has to be on board with you.

amen, it's a complete lifestyle for the entire family.

Tastes great...

Doug, can I use that prositute line as my new quote? I'm laughing 3 pages later after that one, lol

 

[Sprint100]

Since you love analogies, it's akin to condoning what a child molestor does.....

Since when did I condone illegal activity?

Or how about this.. You are soo pro-family, which rocks, I too am extremely pro-family.. It's sorta like.. You pilot brethren are your family also.. and scabbing is akin to your family trying to keep invaders out of the house and you walking up and opening the door..

I understand what you are saying but I would never put a co-worker ahead of my blood.

Say what you like.. give passes to who you like..
As far as I am concerned, scabs and their friends are worthless..

I can feel ya on your opinion. Apologies to you and MTSU for expressing myself in a manner that didn't respect your legal opinions in regards to a legal activity.

 

[Sprint100]

Edwin, MTSU kinda re-educated you to the game.

Nah, I look at it as a clarification. It doesn't change my opinion, but lets me see both sides more clearly.

If you are considering an aviation career, know that it is a career and not a job. A career should be a life long employment situation based on specialized skills.

You claim that you would never strike, but never scab. Knowing all that you do about what it takes to be a pilot the blood, sweat, tears and personal self sacrifice isn't this career worth saving if it came under attack? By those who might threathen your ability to make a liveable wage and care for your family?

Being a pilot is a specialized skill. We have no national seniority system. So simply leaving XXX airline because of strike woo's means that you lose company seniorty and pay. If you go to another airline, or possibly even a non aviation job, if you were making decent or above average pay at your previous career, you'd still start on the bottom. How then could you take care of your family.

Saying that you'd just find another job is like getting a small repairable dent in that M45 you want so badly, and saying "eff it, it will take too much time to take the car to be repaired and get a rental. So I'll just go out and buy a new car." Not willing to stand and with your brothers, fellow pilots who are putting their careers and family at possible risk to better both is almost that same.

An extreme example but I hope it came accorss clearly.

My career is working period. I wouldn't say that pilot training is blood, sweat, and tears. There are much harder things than pilot training. If it came to that extreme I would just fly for fun and continue what I'm doing or put more effort into my business venture.
M45 analogy was a bad one. I would just pay for the repair and roll in my rental until it's fixed. I've had to do it before and the process was brainless...no harm, no foul.
I don't mind standing with my co-workers for a particular cause, but if that means sacrificing my family well-being all bets are off.

 

[FlyChicaga]

I still find it amazing that some really cool cats that I know personally aren't getting the idea of family first.

Lastly, I'm all about taking care of your family first.

I am all about family first as well. A person's family is always the most important thing, above all else. You will never find me disagreeing with you on that one.

However, the reason pilot groups strike is to show they are not willing to work for the unacceptable pay and work rules that the company proposes. The pay that feeds your family, and those work rules that permit you to be home more, have better benefits, and improve your quality of life. These are all things that directly affect your home family at home.

You will not see me ever scab, and that is because of my family. I do not want to set an example for my children that it is OK to lack integrity and undercut your friends and co-workers. That is exactly what a scab does. The group as a whole is trying to improve things across the board for each of their families at home. A scab is only thinking of themselves, and I want to raise my children to think of others as well as themselves.

What a sad world this would be if everyone was selfish.

 

[butt]

To support/condone scabbing is just as bad as being one..

You obviously support those who "have a legitimate reason" which is complete Bravo Sierra, thus making you one in the same..

Since you love analogies, it's akin to condoning what a child molestor does.. Are you a child molestor (scab) obviously not.. but if you condone what said child molestor (scab) has done.. You are no better than he..

Or how about this.. You are soo pro-family, which rocks, I too am extremely pro-family.. It's sorta like.. You pilot brethren are your family also.. and scabbing is akin to your family trying to keep invaders out of the house and you walking up and opening the door..

Say what you like.. give passes to who you like..

As far as I am concerned, scabs and their friends are worthless..

This is the kind of emotional drivel I talked about in my post. Calm down man... Comparing a scab to a child molester? Give me a break...

Lets pretend I have a family. I have three kids, a wife and a mortgage. Lets say I work for Delta Airlines and I'm a captain. I enjoy my job, my pay, and everything else associated with my job.

Lets say out of the blue Delta decides to axe all pilot's medical benefits and cut all salary's in half. If that happened I'd be totally pissed, as would most other pilots in the same situation as me. I would have no choice but to strike. Getting another job won't cut it.

But at the same time, I can understand there could be other pilots with the company who may not feel the same. Maybe they don't care about health benefits? Maybe they don't need the huge salary? Maybe they emphasize with upper management, and are willing to "stick it out" until things get better?

I'm not even sure if such a situation is even possible, but if those people decided to not strike, I couldn't hold it against them. If they wanted to show me and my comrades some support by striking, I'd take it as one HELL of a gesture, but I would never expect them to do that.

If a bunch of pilots decide to "strike" against piper aircraft because they feel they are unsafe, if I get caught flying a Seminole will they put my name on the boogyman list too?

 

[Sprint100]

I am all about family first as well. A person's family is always the most important thing, above all else. You will never find me disagreeing with you on that one.

However, the reason pilot groups strike is to show they are not willing to work for the unacceptable pay and work rules that the company proposes. The pay that feeds your family, and those work rules that permit you to be home more, have better benefits, and improve your quality of life. These are all things that directly affect your home family at home.

You will not see me ever scab, and that is because of my family. I do not want to set an example for my children that it is OK to lack integrity and undercut your friends and co-workers. That is exactly what a scab does. The group as a whole is trying to improve things across the board for each of their families at home. A scab is only thinking of themselves, and I want to raise my children to think of others as well as themselves.

What a sad world this would be if everyone was selfish.

I can agree with you wholeheartedly, but when this all started I expressed the situation of a man that couldn't find anything else with his family dependant on his wage coming in every week. They have no money set aside , he literally has no options. If the only way for him to make money is to cross that picket line so he can put food on the table then I'm all for it. There is no way I can tell a man to let his family starve. Like I said, if he can get his hustle on doing something else then he should do that.
I can see both sides to this, but in my eyes providing for family trumps anything else. A scab only thinks of himself when him/her and their family can make do during a strike and they still cross the picket line. If a man has no options and crosses the picket line, I would hardly call him selfish especially considering what he'll have to put up with.

Besides, there are too many men out there not providing for family or their children and they all have silly excuses. So if a man has a legal way to provide vs. not providing then I'm all for providing anyway he can legally.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

. . . the situation of a man that couldn't find anything else with his family dependant on his wage coming in every week. They have no money set aside , he literally has no options. If the only way for him to make money is to cross that picket line so he can put food on the table . . .

He would no longer be welcome in my home, my church, my kids couldn't hang out with his. I wouldn't pull over if his wife was broke down on the wrong side of town, surround by hoodlums ready to have at her. I really wouldn't care if they robbed and beat her, and she had no way to protect herself. After all, he wasn't looking out for my family.