mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion.
Scabs
- Thread starter MikeOH58
- Start date
- Status
Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Ed, ALPA takes care of their strikers. Seriously they do.
You get paid, they take care of the insurance. The family excuse really doesn't cut it.
You get paid, they take care of the insurance. The family excuse really doesn't cut it.
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
Dude you gotta learn to not only read but be able to comprehend mutiple sentences.
Oh yes, I like setting people up for my own benefit
Reading you're posts is getting too funny, because clearcut ignorance is being shown. Ignorance should be expected since you don't know me, so I guess your right in tune. BTW, stop calling me worthless it just kills the self-esteem.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
At least one of these 'college' students on here knows A LOT more about this industry than you or I my friend.
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
That's really all I needed to hear! STRIKE ON!!!!!!!!!!!
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
I haven't read any of this thread yet. I just clicked on this thread because I saw staplegun posted on it, and he always has some rather wise words to say.
So forgive me if it has already been said but in addition to strike assistance from ALPA, a pilot should also be saving and be prepared, and have a rather large strike fund available for him and his family.
Someone on here once had one over $200k. That is being smart, that is being prepared. That is something one should plan for if they're thinking of becoming an airline pilot!
Just some advice my brotha!
So forgive me if it has already been said but in addition to strike assistance from ALPA, a pilot should also be saving and be prepared, and have a rather large strike fund available for him and his family.
Someone on here once had one over $200k. That is being smart, that is being prepared. That is something one should plan for if they're thinking of becoming an airline pilot!
Just some advice my brotha!
staplegun
Well-Known Member
That's what we are talking about. You need to be ready, it's part of the deal!
There are no excuses on this subject; once you make one exception where do you draw the line? nobody wants to go on strike!!!
So, I guess you're saying that you won't scab?
We are saying it's wrong. You will have to pick one if being at a major union-represented airline is your goal...
Kevin
Tram
Well-Known Member
I usually don't do this.. but I will, just for you, since we are speaking of ignorance after all..
It's "your posts" not "you're posts" as in you are..
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
Good lookin, but I'm cool. Gots me a lil' bit of change layin around already. This flared up because I spoke of a particular situation, then yadda-yadda-yadda.
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
I usually don't do this.. but I will, just for you, since we are speaking of ignorance after all..
It's "your posts" not "you're posts" as in you are..
Got me
tonyw
Well-Known Member
You know, airlines could avoid this entire situation by simply not treating their employees like yesterday's dog doo and then they wouldn't want to strike.
I just don't get why management at some companies doesn't understand that if you take care of your employees, they will come to work with much higher morale. Higher morale yields higher productivity and they just might take care of their customers better.
When time and again it's been shown that companies known for taking care of their employees provide higher stock returns than those who do not, I don't see why it's not obvious to execs that shafting your employees is stupid.
Don't shaft your employees and they won't strike!
I just don't get why management at some companies doesn't understand that if you take care of your employees, they will come to work with much higher morale. Higher morale yields higher productivity and they just might take care of their customers better.
When time and again it's been shown that companies known for taking care of their employees provide higher stock returns than those who do not, I don't see why it's not obvious to execs that shafting your employees is stupid.
Don't shaft your employees and they won't strike!
As someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight, perhaps you can give me some insight as to why scabs are so despised on what seems to be a primal emotional level. Not trying to p**s anyone off, just curious because the views seem so strident.
Obviously, from a pragmatic point of view, crossing a picket line is detrimental to a pilot's own future in the 121 business. However, there seem to be a couple of rationales for disliking scabs,that are perhaps being conflated.
Rationale #1. "Scabs are despicable" because they are "enemies", in the general sense that they take any action actually or perceived to be detrimental to the striking group. This is no different than say, Coca-Cola employees viewing Pepsi employees as "enemies" because they are pursuing the same beverage contract on a college campus. In a zero-sum game, there is a winner and a loser. OK, reason #1 understood.
Rationale #2. "Scabs are despicable" because they are violating some moral code, or infringing some inherent right of the striking group. I suppose this is based on the premise either that (1) the striking group has the right to an EFFECTIVE strike; or (2) the individual pilot has a duty to advance the collective economic well-being of the striking group.
There is of course a moral and legal right to organize and strike in the U.S. However, I'm not aware of any "right" to have that strike be effective, i.e. by forcing every worker to participate. In fact, if there were such a thing as a 100% effective ALPA that could force a pilot's national minimum wage, it would most likely create an anti-trust violation (price-fixing in the presence of market power?)
Also, doesn't the concept of an individual obligation to the worker's group economy run contrary to basic principles of free choice? What is the fundamental philosophical difference between "group solidarity" and "uniform intimidation"?
Just my $.02
Obviously, from a pragmatic point of view, crossing a picket line is detrimental to a pilot's own future in the 121 business. However, there seem to be a couple of rationales for disliking scabs,that are perhaps being conflated.
Rationale #1. "Scabs are despicable" because they are "enemies", in the general sense that they take any action actually or perceived to be detrimental to the striking group. This is no different than say, Coca-Cola employees viewing Pepsi employees as "enemies" because they are pursuing the same beverage contract on a college campus. In a zero-sum game, there is a winner and a loser. OK, reason #1 understood.
Rationale #2. "Scabs are despicable" because they are violating some moral code, or infringing some inherent right of the striking group. I suppose this is based on the premise either that (1) the striking group has the right to an EFFECTIVE strike; or (2) the individual pilot has a duty to advance the collective economic well-being of the striking group.
There is of course a moral and legal right to organize and strike in the U.S. However, I'm not aware of any "right" to have that strike be effective, i.e. by forcing every worker to participate. In fact, if there were such a thing as a 100% effective ALPA that could force a pilot's national minimum wage, it would most likely create an anti-trust violation (price-fixing in the presence of market power?)
Also, doesn't the concept of an individual obligation to the worker's group economy run contrary to basic principles of free choice? What is the fundamental philosophical difference between "group solidarity" and "uniform intimidation"?
Just my $.02
staplegun
Well-Known Member
Tram
Well-Known Member
A quick and dirty of why scabs suck...
As a pilot group.. you have to act as a group to get things done..
When the pilot group attempts to get something done and a strike happens..
The scab is the low-life who goes against the group, to serve himself...
Some of you guys have the idea of a scab alllll wrong.. Coke versus Pepsi? Wrong...
As a pilot group.. you have to act as a group to get things done..
When the pilot group attempts to get something done and a strike happens..
The scab is the low-life who goes against the group, to serve himself...
Some of you guys have the idea of a scab alllll wrong.. Coke versus Pepsi? Wrong...
Fly4Pay
New Member
Sorry, but I don't buy this one. I know unions are a part of airline life--fine. And sometimes they choose to strike. Granted. But honestly, when you get down to it, airline strikes come down to one thing--money. Pilots (usually) strike over money, not working conditions.
Unions as they were originally conceived and executed were intended to literally protect the worker. Check out the book "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. I had to read that back in high school, and still remember it today. It's about the beginnings of unions in this country. Why did they form them? Because of truly unsafe working conditions. People were losing limbs in textile mills. People died on the job due to heat, inhalation of dangerous chemicals, accidents, and so on. Unions came into popularity in this country to literally protect the lives of their members.
While the pilot's life may not be as rosy as we might like, it's a long way from that scenario. It hardly counts as being "shafted."
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
I don't know the name, and heard about it here on JC. It was a while back. A woman CA I believe flying 747 or 777 for UAL now. If I remember I think the comment was she also crossed a picket line when at CAL, as well as while at UAL.
Sorry, that is all I remember.
staplegun
Well-Known Member
You need to read Flying the Line. The major reason for ALPA starting was safety. ALPA is still a leader in aviation safety.
Kevin
:yeahthat:
Commerical aviation would not be as safe as it is today if weren't for the ALPA of the past. Flying the Line should be required reading for every airline pilot.
- Status