Bad First Impression

[poser765]

Different career field but interesting to note, maybe. My father was the same way and the amount of dread he has instilled in my when I’m late for a thing is obnoxious. I’ve noticed most people my age or younger aren’t as worried about the damage to character getting to work late one morning it used to be seen as.

Senior guys/gals on the job would typically get to the building 30 minutes prior to the start of shift (self included). One of us would make a fresh pot of coffee, we'd chat a minute or two, and wander back to the dispatch center to get signed in. It was a gentle transition to an inevitably busy day. More often than not the midnight shift we relieved got to head home fifteen minutes early after handing-off any active calls and briefing on the previous eight hours.

New hires (and these were often men and women of more-tender years) tended to show-up last minute and generally didn't know what it meant to be a "team player," looking out for partners and coworkers. Continuing tardiness was cause for dismissal even if one was "only" five minutes late on a regular basis (emergencies, traffic issues, etc., were taken into consideration).

It was taken as a sign of disrespect to the outgoing shift, especially when relieving the midnight crew, if a person couldn't make it to work on time on a regular basis. It was also a contractual issue. Snowstorm with roadways closed? As "essential workers" you still went and did so early enough to arrive in a timely way. Our "magic" IDs got us through police/DOT road closures in some very severe weather. You didn't take the job, for most of us, without the clear understanding of the accompanying responsibility.

Like many who have posted, to be early was to be on-time; to be just "on-time" was to be late; to be genuinely late, apart from an exigent circumstance, was unforgivable.

I’m thinking there’s probably a pretty big generational difference here as well.

If my scheduled shift or work activity starts at 0800, I’ll be in position and ready to work at 0800. Anything before that is MY time. I don’t have much desire to use my time for making a pot of coffee or talking to Linda in the break room. There’s nothing wrong doing those things… and since I’m not perfect at making my 20 minute commute take exactly 20 minutes chances are I’ll be there a bit early to engage in those things. I show respect to my employer and coworkers by being in position when I’m supposed to be. If they want more than that they should reevaluate my responsibilities.

Now I’m not saying it’s ok to be consistently 5 minutes late to log log into your phone, or open your cash register, or unlock the gates or whatever, but to err is a fundamental human trait. Being unable to forgive an error seems foolish. And frankly, and this may seem kind of confrontational (I don’t mean it that way), I’m not terribly worried about someone’s opinion of me that can’t forgive.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

I’m thinking there’s probably a pretty big generational difference here as well.

If my scheduled shift or work activity starts at 0800, I’ll be in position and ready to work at 0800. Anything before that is MY time. I don’t have much desire to use my time for making a pot of coffee or talking to Linda in the break room. There’s nothing wrong doing those things… and since I’m not perfect at making my 20 minute commute take exactly 20 minutes chances are I’ll be there a bit early to engage in those things. I show respect to my employer and coworkers by being in position when I’m supposed to be. If they want more than that they should reevaluate my responsibilities.

Now I’m not saying it’s ok to be consistently 5 minutes late to log log into your phone, or open your cash register, or unlock the gates or whatever, but to err is a fundamental human trait. Being unable to forgive an error seems foolish. And frankly, and this may seem kind of confrontational (I don’t mean it that way), I’m not terribly worried about someone’s opinion of me that can’t forgive.

Not confrontational to me. Respect your thoughts and just recounting my experience, not suggesting it should be the norm - just the way it was for 15+ years. To err is a human trait; to make a habit of it is (perhaps) something more Correctly or not, there were consequences on my job when it became a pattern. "Being in position" when one is supposed to be is vastly different than being even a few minutes beyond that on a regular basis.

And, yeah, it is absolutely a generational thing - at least in my opinion.

Fortunately, I rarely know the date without looking at a calendar and have no obligation except to my pups these days, and they are very flexible with regard to schedule

 

[poser765]

Not confrontational to me. Respect your thoughts and just recounting my experience, not suggesting it should be the norm - just the way it was for 15+ years. To err is a human trait; to make a habit of it is (perhaps) something more Correctly or not, there were consequences on my job when it became a pattern. "Being in position" when one is supposed to be is vastly different than being even a few minutes beyond that on a regular basis.

And, yeah, it is absolutely a generational thing - at least in my opinion.

Fortunately, I rarely know the date without looking at a calendar and have no obligation except to my pups these days, and they are very flexible with regard to schedule

For sure there is a vast difference between occasionally and a pattern. I think we largely agree on the big picture stuff.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The handful of times I've been late for anything in this business—from being late for sign-in due to a protest on World Way (not really my fault) to accidentally oversleeping while on break to relieve the PF because my timer got stopped on my watch (absolutely my fault and will never happen again)—I've damn near died of embarrassment even if it wasn't really my fault. Notable exceptions include RES callouts, as that falls under the actions of superiors and I can only shave and put on pants so fast, etc., or when my commute goes completely sideways—but then, I'm usually trying to get ahold of someone on the operating crew so that they know I'm going to show up late. (A good Captain here is all "Aw, hell, no worries! You work PM, I'll have Bob do RP and you just show up prior to push! We got'chu." (read in ATL-bubba accent and based upon a true story or three).)

This reflex embarrassment is apparently not universal, however. And, I mean, I get it. 51% of my job is showing up in pants and on time.

 

[ClearedForOption]

You CA's somehow magically appear, A.I.V. as you say, exactly at van time +/- 0 seconds. I have to respect that skill. I blame my early presence on the "15 minutes early is on time" military mentality that was burned into my brain over so many years. Hopefully I can achieve such wizard level skills too one day

A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

Gandalf the Gray
OG Boomer Captain

 

[Bob Ridpath]

A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

Gandalf the Gray
OG Boomer Captain

I "do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger."

J.R.R. Tolkein (and a good rule in life)

 

[derg]

I’ve always lived by the mantra of “If you’re early…you’re on time, if you’re on time…you’re late, and if you’re late…don’t bother showing up“. It was a respect thing to let the other person know their time was important and valuable to me and I generally expect the same from them.

Use to drive my daughter crazy when I’d say it to her growing up. “But dad…if you’re on time how are you late?” I’d tell her wait till you’re an adult looking for a job and what happens to the person that shows up early for an interview vs the person who shows up late. First impressions mean a lot….
She’s now OCD about time and appointments and hates when people don’t show up when they say they will…..

Now that I’ve implanted those deep seated psychological issues into her brain I figure my job as a parent are done!

If I'm a minute late for something, it makes me crazy.

And I'll tell the wife that "we need to leave by 1720!" when we technically can leave as late at 1735 and be OK. Shhhhhhhh!

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Different career field but interesting to note, maybe.

Senior guys/gals on the job would typically get to the building 30 minutes prior to the start of shift (self included). One of us would make a fresh pot of coffee, we'd chat a minute or two, and wander back to the dispatch center to get signed in. It was a gentle transition to an inevitably busy day. More often than not the midnight shift we relieved got to head home fifteen minutes early after handing-off any active calls and briefing on the previous eight hours.

New hires (and these were often men and women of more-tender years) tended to show-up last minute and generally didn't know what it meant to be a "team player," looking out for partners and coworkers. Continuing tardiness was cause for dismissal even if one was "only" five minutes late on a regular basis (emergencies, traffic issues, etc., were taken into consideration).

It was taken as a sign of disrespect to the outgoing shift, especially when relieving the midnight crew, if a person couldn't make it to work on time on a regular basis. It was also a contractual issue. Snowstorm with roadways closed? As "essential workers" you still went and did so early enough to arrive in a timely way. Our "magic" IDs got us through police/DOT road closures in some very severe weather. You didn't take the job, for most of us, without the clear understanding of the accompanying responsibility.

Like many who have posted, to be early was to be on-time; to be just "on-time" was to be late; to be genuinely late, apart from an exigent circumstance, was unforgivable.

Maybe the night shift wouldn’t NEED to go home 15 early if they didn’t show up 30 early?

 

[CFI A&P]

I’ve always lived by the mantra of “If you’re early…you’re on time, if you’re on time…you’re late, and if you’re late…don’t bother showing up“. It was a respect thing to let the other person know their time was important and valuable to me and I generally expect the same from them.

Use to drive my daughter crazy when I’d say it to her growing up. “But dad…if you’re on time how are you late?” I’d tell her wait till you’re an adult looking for a job and what happens to the person that shows up early for an interview vs the person who shows up late. First impressions mean a lot….
She’s now OCD about time and appointments and hates when people don’t show up when they say they will…..

Now that I’ve implanted those deep seated psychological issues into her brain I figure my job as a parent are done!

A few years ago I had a vendor no-show on me for an appointment. We had a chat in which I explained to him that time is the most important commodity there is because it is irreplaceable, and when you waste a customer's time you've wasted their most valuable asset. They apologized profusely, insisted on getting a second chance and in the end won my business back. He later told me that no one ever explained punctuality like that before, it resonated, he has since stolen that from me to use with other people.

Now, we can't talk about being on time in the military without a little jab at the USAF.

 

[JordanD]

If I'm a minute late for something, it makes me crazy.

And I'll tell the wife that "we need to leave by 1720!" when we technically can leave as late at 1735 and be OK. Shhhhhhhh!

We eventually started telling two of our friends our reservation times for restaurants were 15-20 minutes earlier than they actually were so they’d be on time.

 

[🦈💜]

I'm still the dork that beats pretty much the entire crew to the van. It'll be me and the senior mama FA, awkwardly talking about cooking or something random for a good 5-10 mins before even the next FA shows. You CA's somehow magically appear, A.I.V. as you say, exactly at van time +/- 0 seconds. I have to respect that skill. I blame my early presence on the "15 minutes early is on time" military mentality that was burned into my brain over so many years. Hopefully I can achieve such wizard level skills too one day

At least in my segment of the industry, legal rest is legal rest, and I'm going to use every last minute of it that I can get to make sure I'm safe for the 16 hour duty day that follows. I'm not lazy so much as I'm going to fight tooth and claw for my rest.

I don't mind being early, but on time is on time.

 

[DPApilot]

As I type this up, I was late for the first time in over a year at this Air Line. A whole minute as there was a line for the front desk, and I was woken up in the middle of the night by the hotel manager mistakenly, but I was still a minute late. I feel like the smallest person in the world when that happens.

 

[CFI A&P]

As I type this up, I was late for the first time in over a year at this Air Line. A whole minute as there was a line for the front desk, and I was woken up in the middle of the night by the hotel manager mistakenly, but I was still a minute late. I feel like the smallest person in the world when that happens.

There's a joke in here somewhere about being on time, a watch and you...

 

[DE727UPS]

I was an F/O on an Osaka layover and the Capt never showed in the lobby. They ran a bus to the airport like every 15 min. I asked the front desk if the Capt had checked out and they said he had but I was skeptical cause the gals Engrish was not too good. I go up to his room to knock on the door and it's cracked open a tad. I warily go into the room and see he's still in bed. I woke him up and running out the door told him I'd catch the next van and just get there when he can. We had an extra 30 min built into our show times for international duty periods that really wasn't necessary in many cases. Maybe that was really for the Capts that went on a bender the night before. Anyhow, I catch the next van, do all my stuff and do his walk around. He shows up and we block on time. I wasn't mad at the guy knowing now he owed me one and he thanked me profusely. I figured Karma owed me one, too, after that and a few years later an F/O did something similar for me on an SFO commercial layover where I had messed up the hotel show time. So it all worked out in the end. International flying at Brown was pretty interesting in that you were far removed from SDF oversight and management. You were just kinda on your own. And there were times when that was really cool.

 

[Roger Roger]

I want to thank this thread for giving me anxiety making me show up 40 minutes early for the D-90 for my first OE trip.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Probie report card… check
Fine ink pen… check


Let’s go son!

 

[///AMG]

I want to thank this thread for giving me anxiety making me show up 40 minutes early for the D-90 for my first OE trip.

I remember a vague feeling of "where am I and what am I doing" on my OE1. Maybe not so vague. Maybe just really wondering what to do with my hands. Fun side note, I didn't realize the uniform pants would arrive not hemmed, and I noticed this at like 2200 at the hotel the night before. So I did what any reasonable FO would do, and I rolled them into the pant legs to an approximate fit, and walked really strangely for 2 days straight, hoping they wouldn't unravel. Somehow I forgot to preflight my gear......

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I’m thinking there’s probably a pretty big generational difference here as well.

If my scheduled shift or work activity starts at 0800, I’ll be in position and ready to work at 0800. Anything before that is MY time.

I think we can all agree that you should be at the airplane prior to boarding time. The expectation is that the airplane be powered up and a walk around performed before boarding. Then you’ve got the roughly 30 minutes during boarding to make your next, set up the cockpit, program the box, etc.

the obvious caveat is a reserve pilot, or pilot who received a late schedule change.

 

[Roger Roger]

I remember a vague feeling of "where am I and what am I doing" on my OE1. Maybe not so vague. Maybe just really wondering what to do with my hands.

As an admittedly socially awkward weirdo, this is just SOP for me

 

[ASpilot2be]

As an admittedly socially awkward weirdo, this is just SOP for me

Same.