Bad First Impression

[JordanD]

Now I’m wondering if that made ME the jerk though.

Not at all. I think too as I get older I get a slightly less worried if people don't like me (although still a bit too much of a people pleaser) but I've gotten more comfortable with bringing up these things, especially if it's saddling the rest of their team with extra work. I do sometimes miss the comfort of being able to speak up about little stuff like that without making it weird, because after all it was my show in the left seat.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

If he were an 8 year FO I get being burned out. An 18 month FO not so much.

An 18 month FO *is* our version of a 8 yr FO. Damn kids have no idea how good they have it.

 

[DE727UPS]

The more I think about it the more I see both sides of the Capt "assertiveness" scale or whatever. I was a great guy to fly with from a laid back perspective but being too laid back sometimes made me lazy and lack standardization. I'm sure some guys thought I sucked and others liked my style. I never failed a recurrent and never got a call from pro standards. I wouldn't worry much about it Zap. You did what you thought was right at the time. Doug made a similar post about an F/O. I wouldn't have handled it the same but who's to say what's right or wrong. Just don't hit anything or bend mental. The rest is debatable.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

The more I think about it the more I see both sides of the Capt "assertiveness" scale or whatever. I was a great guy to fly with from a laid back perspective but being too laid back sometimes made me lazy and lack standardization. I'm sure some guys thought I sucked and others liked my style. I never failed a recurrent and never got a call from pro standards. I wouldn't worry much about it Zap. You did what you thought was right at the time. Doug made a similar post about an F/O. I wouldn't have handled it the same but who's to say what's right or wrong. Just don't hit anything or bend mental. The rest is debatable.

I had someone I respect tell me that I was the most laid back captain he’d flown with at the company. I want to be happy about that, but that’s not always a great thing. In context I was happy as we were over Taiwan heading towards Hong Kong in the beginning of a tropical storm. I wasn’t stressed because we were going to take a look and if at any point we didn’t care for it, we had plenty of fuel to head to Taipei. Not much to be stressed about.

 

[ClearedForOption]

I'm not exactly sure when it happened, but sometime (probably) during the plague a switch flipped and suddenly we are all now the 'old guys.' It's kind of up to us to mentor people, in hopefully a very 'non-richard' way, in the lessons we were all taught.

For instance, van time is A.I.V. - Ass in Van. Not when you leave your room. Not when you get in the elevator. Not time to grab a lobby coffee. A.I.V.

I'm sure everyone's leadership style is different with the time/tone at how they would handle this. It would even change depending on the person and their attitude.

I had one recently where I didn't handle it with as much finesse as I could have. I'm going to blame it on my post-red eye exhaustion. The person I was flying with was a very receptive dude overall so I hope he doesn't think that I'm a total feminine hygiene product. But, that's neither here nor there.

All that being said, your FO owed you a box programming and walk around while you chatted it up with the gate agents and got overpriced terminal calories on the next leg.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I'm not exactly sure when it happened, but sometime (probably) during the plague a switch flipped and suddenly we are all now the 'old guys.' It's kind of up to us to mentor people, in hopefully a very 'non-richard' way, in the lessons we were all taught.

For instance, van time is A.I.V. - Ass in Van. Not when you leave your room. Not when you get in the elevator. Not time to grab a lobby coffee. A.I.V.

I'm sure everyone's leadership style is different with the time/tone at how they would handle this. It would even change depending on the person and their attitude.

I had one recently where I didn't handle it with as much finesse as I could have. I'm going to blame it on my post-red eye exhaustion. The person I was flying with was a very receptive dude overall so I hope he doesn't think that I'm a total feminine hygiene product. But, that's neither here nor there.

All that being said, your FO owed you a box programming and walk around while you chatted it up with the gate agents and got overpriced terminal calories on the next leg.

Agreed except for the van time part, though that’s culturally dependent on the airline. At my place, the company is responsible for our wake up and 1 hour after that we have a responsibility to be in the lobby, preferably with pants on.

 

[///AMG]

I'm still the dork that beats pretty much the entire crew to the van. It'll be me and the senior mama FA, awkwardly talking about cooking or something random for a good 5-10 mins before even the next FA shows. You CA's somehow magically appear, A.I.V. as you say, exactly at van time +/- 0 seconds. I have to respect that skill. I blame my early presence on the "15 minutes early is on time" military mentality that was burned into my brain over so many years. Hopefully I can achieve such wizard level skills too one day

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I'm still the dork that beats pretty much the entire crew to the van. It'll be me and the senior mama FA, awkwardly talking about cooking or something random for a good 5-10 mins before even the next FA shows. You CA's somehow magically appear, A.I.V. as you say, exactly at van time +/- 0 seconds. I have to respect that skill. I blame it on the "15 minutes early is on time" military mentality that was burned into my brain. Hopefully I can achieve such wizard level skills too one day

It’s a photo finish every time, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve been late. My challenge is that while I contractually have an hour to be downstairs from wake up, I require 20 min of clutching a cup of coffee to convince me that I want to participate in my own life. That’s not counting the couple minutes it takes to make it. Only after that do we get to the triple S and a cursory review of the flight plan so I can decide who is doing what.

 

[///AMG]

It’s a photo finish every time, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve been late. My challenge is that while I contractually have an hour to be downstairs from wake up, I require 20 min of clutching a cup of coffee to convince me that I want to participate in my own life. That’s not counting the couple minutes it takes to make it. Only after that do we get to the triple S and a cursory review of the flight plan so I can decide who is doing what.

Yeah maybe that is more the reason I come down early. Need a few mins to adjust to human life before I can truly socialize.

 

[derg]

Agreed except for the van time part, though that’s culturally dependent on the airline. At my place, the company is responsible for our wake up and 1 hour after that we have a responsibility to be in the lobby, preferably with pants on.

Pickup at my airline is basically "The van leaves at pickup time" on the domestic side. It just gets beaten into you and when someone is lackadaisical about pickup time AND arrives with a coffee, it sets a bad tone.

On the international side, hot dang man, there are days I'm downstairs 15 minutes early and people are already freaked out that I overslept. *shrug*

 

[A300Capt]

Pickup at my airline is basically "The van leaves at pickup time" on the domestic side. It just gets beaten into you and when someone is lackadaisical about pickup time AND arrives with a coffee, it sets a bad tone.

I’ve always lived by the mantra of “If you’re early…you’re on time, if you’re on time…you’re late, and if you’re late…don’t bother showing up“. It was a respect thing to let the other person know their time was important and valuable to me and I generally expect the same from them.

Use to drive my daughter crazy when I’d say it to her growing up. “But dad…if you’re on time how are you late?” I’d tell her wait till you’re an adult looking for a job and what happens to the person that shows up early for an interview vs the person who shows up late. First impressions mean a lot….
She’s now OCD about time and appointments and hates when people don’t show up when they say they will…..

Now that I’ve implanted those deep seated psychological issues into her brain I figure my job as a parent are done!

 

[///AMG]

I’ve always lived by the mantra of “If you’re early…you’re on time, if you’re on time…you’re late, and if you’re late…don’t bother showing up“. It was a respect thing to let the other person know their time was important and valuable to me and I generally expect the same from them.

Use to drive my daughter crazy when I’d say it to her growing up. “But dad…if you’re on time how are you late?” I’d tell her wait till you’re an adult looking for a job and what happens to the person that shows up early for an interview vs the person who shows up late. First impressions mean a lot….
She’s now OCD about time and appointments and hates when people don’t show up when they say they will…..

Now that I’ve implanted those deep seated psychological issues into her brain I figure my job as a parent are done!

I laugh a little at my mentality/upbringing, but what you say is the root of it. And even more than showing respect for others, fate has a way of favoring the prepared, at least in my mind. I'm not sure this really translates to airline van times, but it does to life. None of those CA's were a few mins late to their interviews, I guarantee, and they probably weren't even "right on time".

 

[Roger Roger]

I laugh a little at my mentality/upbringing, but what you say is the root of it. And even more than showing respect for others, fate has a way of favoring the prepared, at least in my mind. I'm not sure this really translates to airline van times, but it does to life. None of those CA's were a few mins late to their interviews, I guarantee, and they probably weren't even "right on time".

I walked the route from the hotel to the HUB the night before so I knew how long it would take.

 

[///AMG]

I walked the route from the hotel to the HUB the night before so I knew how long it would take.

Did you think about flash mobs? What if there had been a flash mob at that one crosswalk? !!!!!

Seriously though, I do make a mental note of the elevator times the night before on an overnight. That is the big lim fac on getting to the van. Not so much in the early AM, but at checkout time, it gets silly some places.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I walked the route from the hotel to the HUB the night before so I knew how long it would take.

Time to do work?

 

[Roger Roger]

Time to do work?

I do laugh a little when I see the name of our HQ building.

 

[Roger Roger]

Did you think about flash mobs? What if there had been a flash mob at that one crosswalk? !!!!!

Seriously though, I do make a mental note of the elevator times the night before on an overnight. That is the big lim fac on getting to the van. Not so much in the early AM, but at checkout time, it gets silly some places.

I’m sure I’ll get in a swing of things but until then after basically 6 years of “show up whenever just don’t make the nurses wait long enough to complain” I’m paranoid lol

 

[poser765]

I’ve always lived by the mantra of “If you’re early…you’re on time, if you’re on time…you’re late, and if you’re late…don’t bother showing up“. It was a respect thing to let the other person know their time was important and valuable to me and I generally expect the same from them.

Use to drive my daughter crazy when I’d say it to her growing up. “But dad…if you’re on time how are you late?” I’d tell her wait till you’re an adult looking for a job and what happens to the person that shows up early for an interview vs the person who shows up late. First impressions mean a lot….
She’s now OCD about time and appointments and hates when people don’t show up when they say they will…..

Now that I’ve implanted those deep seated psychological issues into her brain I figure my job as a parent are done!

I'm going to get flack for this, I'm sure, but I'm bored and home alone. so...

I really don't think I like this mind set when taken to neurotic level as many seem to do. Like, my guys, poop happens. Often. As an adult we are responsible for being someplace prepared to do the thing at the time. Early is good. So is on time. Late is...well it's to be avoided. Is it bad? Should you just not bother showing up if you are going to be 3 minutes late? I don't know... Why are you late? If it's because you stopped for a street taco then F you. Is it because the street taco you ate last night hit you right as you were about to fly out the door? I might have some sympathy.

"Well then you need to build some buffer time in when you leave" I can already hear people saying. Yeah, I agree, but how much? A personal example. My drive to the airport is 2:20. I'll give myself at MINIMUM 3 hours to make it. Sometimes I'll take 4. In the 5 years I've been doing this drive I've arrived at the gate late several times because of some pretty gnarly accident related traffic that was entirely unpredictable. Should I give myself 5 hours? 6? Nah, I think I'll just not give myself anxiety about arriving places late when I've taken measures to be on time. Poop happens.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

I'm going to get flack for this, I'm sure, but I'm bored and home alone. so...

I really don't think I like this mind set when taken to neurotic level as many seem to do. Like, my guys, poop happens. Often. As an adult we are responsible for being someplace prepared to do the thing at the time. Early is good. So is on time. Late is...well it's to be avoided. Is it bad? Should you just not bother showing up if you are going to be 3 minutes late? I don't know... Why are you late? If it's because you stopped for a street taco then F you. Is it because the street taco you ate last night hit you right as you were about to fly out the door? I might have some sympathy.

"Well then you need to build some buffer time in when you leave" I can already hear people saying. Yeah, I agree, but how much? A personal example. My drive to the airport is 2:20. I'll give myself at MINIMUM 3 hours to make it. Sometimes I'll take 4. In the 5 years I've been doing this drive I've arrived at the gate late several times because of some pretty gnarly accident related traffic that was entirely unpredictable. Should I give myself 5 hours? 6? Nah, I think I'll just not give myself anxiety about arriving places late when I've taken measures to be on time. Poop happens.

Different career field but interesting to note, maybe.

Senior guys/gals on the job would typically get to the building 30 minutes prior to the start of shift (self included). One of us would make a fresh pot of coffee, we'd chat a minute or two, and wander back to the dispatch center to get signed in. It was a gentle transition to an inevitably busy day. More often than not the midnight shift we relieved got to head home fifteen minutes early after handing-off any active calls and briefing on the previous eight hours.

New hires (and these were often men and women of more-tender years) tended to show-up last minute and generally didn't know what it meant to be a "team player," looking out for partners and coworkers. Continuing tardiness was cause for dismissal even if one was "only" five minutes late on a regular basis (emergencies, traffic issues, etc., were taken into consideration).

It was taken as a sign of disrespect to the outgoing shift, especially when relieving the midnight crew, if a person couldn't make it to work on time on a regular basis. It was also a contractual issue. Snowstorm with roadways closed? As "essential workers" you still went and did so early enough to arrive in a timely way. Our "magic" IDs got us through police/DOT road closures in some very severe weather. You didn't take the job, for most of us, without the clear understanding of the accompanying responsibility.

Like many who have posted, to be early was to be on-time; to be just "on-time" was to be late; to be genuinely late, apart from an exigent circumstance, was unforgivable.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I'm going to get flack for this, I'm sure, but I'm bored and home alone. so...

I really don't think I like this mind set when taken to neurotic level as many seem to do. Like, my guys, poop happens. Often. As an adult we are responsible for being someplace prepared to do the thing at the time. Early is good. So is on time. Late is...well it's to be avoided. Is it bad? Should you just not bother showing up if you are going to be 3 minutes late? I don't know... Why are you late? If it's because you stopped for a street taco then F you. Is it because the street taco you ate last night hit you right as you were about to fly out the door? I might have some sympathy.

"Well then you need to build some buffer time in when you leave" I can already hear people saying. Yeah, I agree, but how much? A personal example. My drive to the airport is 2:20. I'll give myself at MINIMUM 3 hours to make it. Sometimes I'll take 4. In the 5 years I've been doing this drive I've arrived at the gate late several times because of some pretty gnarly accident related traffic that was entirely unpredictable. Should I give myself 5 hours? 6? Nah, I think I'll just not give myself anxiety about arriving places late when I've taken measures to be on time. Poop happens.

Yup. My dad has the above mentioned philosophy for being on time and I’d be lying if it didn’t give me a fair amount of anxiety even today.