///AMG
Well-Known Member
Did the ATAC Kfir pilot at NFL attempt ejection after near flame out in the Wx?
No I don't believe so, sadly. The tail was salvaged, and lives next to the front door of the O'club now. Sad day in naval aviation history
Did the ATAC Kfir pilot at NFL attempt ejection after near flame out in the Wx?
I wouldn't trust a western seat from that generation of fighter aircraft either. The things those guys working for ATAC and Draken ride on, no chance (though IRC there was a successful Draken A-4 ejection in Nellis a few years back, and maybe an ATAC one out in HI in a similar timeframe). That isn't a slight against their maintainers. I imagine they do a good job, and are paid well to manage some very complex and aging survival systems. But they weren't very good to begin with, out of the box.
On February 25, 2021, about 1126 central standard time, a Dassault Aviation Mirage F1B,, N601AX, was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident at Tyndall Air Force Base (PAM), Panama City, Florida. Both pilots sustained serious injuries. The airplane was operated as a public aircraft under the provisions of Title 49 of the United States Code Sections 40102 and 40125.
During takeoff roll from a runway equipped with a raised aircraft arresting system, the pilot of the turbojet-powered fighter airplane noted no discrepancies upon reaching 100 knots, and before the airplane had reached a raised aircraft arresting system that was present across the runway. The takeoff roll continued and at about 125 knots, which was just after the airplane had crossed the arresting system, the airplane suddenly swerved left. As the airplane neared the left edge of the runway it became airborne.
While airborne and orbiting near the airport, the front- and rear-seat pilots reviewed the applicable emergency procedure checklists, discussed possible system failures, and had pilots from another airplane provide a visual check of the accident airplane’s landing gear. Based on the information provided and the lack of an annunciation of any problem with the nosewheel steering (NWS) system, the pilots attributed the sudden swerve to an issue with the left main landing gear. Although there was some discussion about a hard over of the NWS system, the pilot left it on but planned to turn it off if the airplane veered during the emergency landing.
The pilot burned fuel and returned for landing on the right side of a 200-ft-wide runway. After touchdown the airplane veered to the left, travelled off the runway and onto the grass infield, and the nose landing gear to collapsed. The rear-seat pilot initiated an unannounced ejection, which should have resulted in the front seat also ejecting; however, the rear seat ejected successfully, but the front seat did not. The airplane came to rest and both pilots sustained serious injuries.
A postaccident examination of the NWS system revealed that the annular bearing of the distribution block fractured in overload, with no evidence of preimpact failure or malfunction. The fracture likely resulted from travelling over the raised aircraft arresting system at a high speed, the shock from which traveled from the nose landing gear into the distribution block and resulted in a fracture of the bearing race. Because of the fractured bearing race, the distribution block commanded a left turn consistent with the condition reported by the pilot during takeoff and landing. Although the airplane checklist for failure of the NWS did not include a loss of control during takeoff, it is likely that had the NWS been disconnected upon landing when the nosewheel touched down, directional control would have been possible using differential braking for directional control authority and the airplane likely could have been stopped safely on the runway.
The postaccident examination of the front seat pilot’s ejection seat determined that it did not eject from the airplane because of impact damage to aircraft structure that secured the lower ejection seat gun mount, which resulted in movement of the seat and subsequent separation of a gas line from the rear seat to the front seat, which made ejection of the front seat impossible.
Probable Cause: Nose landing gear contact with a raised aircraft arresting system during takeoff, which damaged components of the nose wheel steering system and resulted in an uncommanded left turn and loss of directional control.
I was just coming to post about whether or not ejection seats at airshows are ethical.Ejections at air shows shouldn’t be allowed. Go take your plane all the way to an empty field/space. And good luck. That should be an accepted risk for the pilots in air shows.
Essentially, this pilot traded his life for a 5 yr old girl. Yeah, yeah, he didn’t know that. But it’s an air show. There’s gonna be people around when you send your jet hurtling pilot-less to the ground.
As a counterpoint to ponder, this was the Italian AF equivalent to our Thunderbirds or Blue Angels. Would you all propose that they safe up their seats during performances as well?
Yes.As a counterpoint to ponder, this was the Italian AF equivalent to our Thunderbirds or Blue Angels. Would you all propose that they safe up their seats during performances as well?
So...remind me how many accidents the Blues and Tbirds have had that have taken out innocents again. Something like 0? Yes, let us take away their ability to eject if they are about to crash just in the off chance they will hit a house. Because if they are, they should die too and more kids should grow up without a parent etc. I'd love to see the math on how many lives have been saved by an airshow eject vs how many ground death incidents MAYBE POSSIBLY could have been avoided had the pilot "tried harder".Yes.
The idea that an out-of-control aircraft will magically avoid innocent ground victims if only the pilot "rides her in", baffles me.
I suspect the logic is that there’s a lower chance of there being an out-of-control aircraft if the pilot knows there’s no eject button available…an enforced conservatism.
I don’t think I buy that, but I sort of get the train of thought.
MikeD has shared several times the risk to life or taking some of our tactical fighters into an overrun because of the likelihood of it flipping over. The procedure is to get out of the aircraft. The crowd of people who willingly came to see aircraft flown at the edge of a performance envelope are in no unique danger that some random maintenance driver would be in given that kind of event.
This is just our resident idiots and devils advocates suggesting something dumb to be the center of conversation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not aware of any. As far as I know Capt Kuss' crash in Smyrna was the only one that happened during takeoff. Crashed in a postage stamp size field. Deliberate? Maybe. He didn't attempt to eject until it was too late. Was that to verify it was going to impact where he wanted it to? Maybe. Was it because he was trying to salvage it all the way till the end. More than likely. But in the public's eye hes a hero. News at 11.So...remind me how many accidents the Blues and Tbirds have had that have taken out innocents again. Something like 0? Yes, let us take away their ability to eject if they are about to crash just in the off chance they will hit a house. Because if they are, they should die too and more kids should grow up without a parent etc. I'd love to see the math on how many lives have been saved by an airshow eject vs how many ground death incidents MAYBE POSSIBLY could have been avoided had the pilot "tried harder".
That 5-year-old girl's death would have been a whole lot easier to deal with if the Italian pilot died as well.
That is so stupid. You guys are wild for that opinion.
I am not aware of any. As far as I know Capt Kuss' crash in Smyrna was the only one that happened during takeoff.
Right after take off.It wasn’t during takeoff, Kuss botched a Split-S.