roundout
VNAV monitor
Didn’t you guys try that a couple months ago with bad software or something?
Oh United (tail strike version)
- Thread starter BobDDuck
- Start date
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
This seems like a win, other than the amount of time it's taking them. For years we've griped about how degraded the profession has become and how nobody wants to be a pilot any more. It would appear as if that trend has reversed some. Quick movement and good pay are attracting people who haven't drooled about being a pilot since they were 2 years old.
And I'm going to take offense to your last sentence unless I misunderstood what you are saying. I got in to flying although I had zero "passion" about it. It was a job that provided flexibility out side a 9-5, had the potential to pay well (back when I thought $100k was a huge amount) and wasn't hard labor. Does the fact that I wasn't passionate about becoming a pilot mean I wasn't meant to be a pilot? I put in the same amount of effort I did to get through a bunch of tough engineering and math courses in college, but I kind of felt the same about the two.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
The 80 hours thing has way more to do with expectation inflation than anything else. Shoot anymore you have to be able to give CPL-level dissertation on wx charts just to get signed off for solo.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I can totally see that. Sad
In my group of south Asian friends, a couple have asked me what it would take to enter flying and get to an airline. Zero actual passion for flying itself, they have just heard of the salaries these days and want to bite.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
In summary, you had about 250 hours, no turbine time and a fresh commercial - nothing close to the ATP & 1,000 turbine. Yet earlier in this thread you assert that inexperience is the reason for "more of this kinda stuff". Do you have access to the FOQA & ASAP data, and already know the crew composition and training history ?
Currently United requirements are higher than when you entered the industry. By regulation, even RJ operators have higher requirements than when you started.
Yes, your summary is fairly close to being correct. But keep in mind - I was not the norm. The program I did was fairly rare and not everyone entering the industry at that time did the RJ program to get hired with a wet commercial. There were literally only a handful of those programs.
But you conveniently left OUT the part about those coming in with good, clean records versus checkered training. Accident history in this country has shown - and you can look all of them up yourself - the pilot error accidents have almost ALL been guys who had a checkered history. Eg, multiple training failures. Atlas, UPS, Colgan. And the checkride numbers of today speak for themselves. Ask around. Something has definitely changed. More and more people are just not doing as well as pilots used to do a few years back, when it comes to checkrides - and what I imagine is attitude / mindset towards a (lack of) passion for aviation.
Looking back, my career entry track was kinda crazy. But I had a clean record, good attitude, and could fly well (enough)
and didn't have any ASAPs as a newhire at my regional. Competent people can do okay as low timers. It's how Lufthansa has perfected their ab-initio program and have one of the safest flying records in the world.But, GASP, that involves FIRING pilots who are incompetent, instead of union protecting the weak and letting them fly until they put one into the ground. I think I once said on JC that if you bust 3 or more checkrides, maybe you shouldn't fly for an airline. That was, of course, met with personal attacks and disdain. Heck, I put a Raven article about them gloating on getting a guy hired with FOUR part 121 failures and people here took offense to that too.
MPL is coming here whether we like it or not. Until AI takes over, we are not gonna have the pilot supply to fly the jets that airlines need occupied for the next 30 yrs. It's how we choose to do it that will set what "safe" looks like. It's my humble opinion you WILL have to let go of the incompetent, multiple failure types.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
How do you know the training history of the two pilots involved in this event?
roundout
VNAV monitor
how on earth is that reflective of your abilities?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Because ASAPs usually represent screwups. Some honest, some outright dumb.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
We don’t. Another thing that needs to be changed. That stuff should be viewable. If not by the public, certainly by other crew members. So they have a heads up.
That's an interesting perspective. I'm wagering you haven't fully thought through the ramifications. I mean, let's just go ahead and get the pilots as a whole involved in FOQA, ASAP, etc.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
No, I get what he's saying. There's one VX CA that I've flown with many times and respect. When I was a FO, he said to me "I wish I had your passion for this." I asked him to expand, and he said it just wasn't the same for him - that if he could find something else that paid the same, he'd take that in a heartbeat and leave this. That kinda saddened me. Inside, I wish that never happens to me. I still love this job everyday. I hope I never end up like that.
As for the first part, I would disagree. I don't want someone who is solely seeing the $400,000+ salary as the reason they are doing flight training. Quick movement and good pay is attracting exactly the crowd that is the Gen Z: entitled, lazy, me me me, now generation. I'd be willing to excuse that IF their record was exemplary. But now add that mentality along with someone struggling through training, taking 100+ hrs for their private, and now add in checkride failures? Nah, I'd really rather not see this at the airline level.
I am saddened reading about your lack of passion - I would have never guessed it. From your work to your volunteerism at ALPA, I would have thought you were very passionate about this job. I feel sorry if you didn't have that and/or have lost that.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
So you’re saying you never screwed up prior to your wet commercial interview at Pinnacle?
Like never violated any regulation at all?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
At the airlines, we call it the CA word-of-mouth. It goes something like "who you flying with next?" And CA says "F/O xxxxxx" And then he hears "Oh man, good luck to you. I hope I don't have to fly with him anytime soon" or even worse "if I see him again, I'm calling to get him removed..." kinda thing.
That gives me the heads up I need. And now as a CA you can take steps to mitigate threats even better.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Not that I recall.
Although we (I + CFI) did screw up a real-life engine failure after liftoff on a multi. End result was a successful landing where we were fine and the plane was useable and stopped on the runway, but it was ugly as hell.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I am saddened reading about your lack of passion - I would have never guessed it. From your work to your volunteerism at ALPA, I would have thought you were very passionate about this job. I feel sorry if you didn't have that and/or have lost that.
What does my desire to help other people have a better time at work have to do with being passionate about being a pilot? Absolutely none of the things I do for fun have anything to do with my job. None of my friends (with a few exceptions of JC members I've known forever) are pilots. It's just a job. A very good one... but if I didn't have to do it to fund the other things I actually want to do in life, I sure as hell wouldn't. Thankfully (and @derg just mentioned this in FB post) my current position allows me to bid 4 and 5 say international trips so I can get paid to do what I want and explore new places... but it sure isn't the actual sitting in the seat bit that gets me excited to pack for a 10 hour flight to Sydney.
I'm kind of confused why you'd be sad for me because I feel that way.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
Then you were too oblivious to know you screwed up, because I 100% guarantee you violated an FAR, even in 250hrs or whatever.
But hey, at least you have the confidence to criticize those who knew enough to know when they screwed up.
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DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
I’m still the giddy kid that lives going to work, but I fully understand what you’re saying. 4 leg six days with 24+hour overnights in fun cities in Europe is much different than 4 leg Florida shuttles with min rest.
Doing Union stuff has nothing to do with loving being a pilot. I did union stuff because I liked helping other people out.
