Oh United (tail strike version)

[bLizZuE]

How easy is it to thunk the tail on takeoff in a 757-300?

UA372 (UAL372) United Flight Tracking and History 03-May-2023 (PHNL-PHNL) - FlightAware

Track United (UA) #372 flight from Daniel K Inouye Intl to Daniel K Inouye Intl

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Hard

 

[bLizZuE]

FOM says 9.5 degrees of pitch to strike the tail. Which is hard for me to imagine attaining before liftoff.

 

[Baronman]

I’m gonna make a generalization, but military guys always seem to rotate the s#it out of the plane.

 

[SeanD]

Raise your hand if any of you have seen an SWA jet nearly land front gear first?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Why does it matter how many hours @Cherokee_Cruiser had? That’s irrelevant to whether less experience is less safe.

 

[Ian_J]

As experience levels drop, we’re gonna see more of this kinda stuff. Not a slight against United, my comment is for the industry in general.

The crew appears to be 1996 and 2015 hires.

 

[Maurus]

How easy is it to thunk the tail on takeoff in a 757-300?

UA372 (UAL372) United Flight Tracking and History 03-May-2023 (PHNL-PHNL) - FlightAware

Track United (UA) #372 flight from Daniel K Inouye Intl to Daniel K Inouye Intl

flightaware.com

We consider it pretty easy to do here at the widget. It could just be because we have over 100 -200s to our 16 -300s. It took me 10 months to fly a -300 for the first time. I haven't flown one for at least 5 months now as well. Very easy to not have any recency of experience.

We are taught to target a 2.0 degrees/second rotation to mitigate this problem.

I would think the 767-400 would be prone to this as well but just a visual guess.

It is. From what I am told it is a bit more finicky with t/o and landing as a result. Ultimately it isn't all the different from a 767-300ER.

 

[Richman]

None of the items in that song are ironic, they just suck.

 

[CFI A&P]

Why does it matter how many hours @Cherokee_Cruiser had? That’s irrelevant to whether less experience is less safe.

In this example, hours are tied to having an ATP or wet commercial and the hypocritical statement that inexperienced pilots are to blame, except for when they were low time.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

In this example, hours are tied to having an ATP or wet commercial and the hypocritical statement that inexperienced pilots are to blame, except for when they were low time.

I haven’t seen him claim that he was somehow the lone exception to his own rule, so there is no hypocrisy. It’s no different than an adult saying that teenagers are stupid and reckless. Just because all of us were once stupid and reckless teenagers doesn’t make it any less a true statement.

 

[Maurus]

FOM says 9.5 degrees of pitch to strike the tail. Which is hard for me to imagine attaining before liftoff.

Correct. Our books have the -200 with a tail strike pitch of 12.3 and a liftoff pitch of 10 degrees at flaps 5 (standard). Go to a -300 and all of a sudden the pitch outside is quite different. Liftoff in the -300 is at 7.5 degrees. If you are used to that ~10 degree liftoff sight picture and go to a -300 it can become tailstrike city considering the 9.5 degree tailstrike pitch.

We teach all three aircraft the same rotation to fix this but there are guys that still love to yank the -200 off the ground for some reason.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

None of the items in that song are ironic, they just suck.

“Isn’t it unfortunate”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CFI A&P]

I haven’t seen him claim that he was somehow the lone exception to his own rule, so there is no hypocrisy. It’s no different than an adult saying that teenagers are stupid and reckless. Just because all of us were once stupid and reckless teenagers doesn’t make it any less a true statement.

The issue I have is their analysis always blames inexperienced crews, even though they were once in that position and seemingly invincible to any such scenario, and never really interested in having a discussion from a true human factors standpoint, rather the discussion is more from a ridicule and “I told you so.” position.

 

[ASpilot2be]

Correct. Our books have the -200 with a tail strike pitch of 12.3 and a liftoff pitch of 10 degrees at flaps 5 (standard). Go to a -300 and all of a sudden the pitch outside is quite different. Liftoff in the -300 is at 7.5 degrees. If you are used to that ~10 degree liftoff sight picture and go to a -300 it can become tailstrike city considering the 9.5 degree tailstrike pitch.

We teach all three aircraft the same rotation to fix this but there are guys that still love to yank the -200 off the ground for some reason.

Random fact, the 777-300 hits at 8.9 degrees. I was shocked it was less than the 757-300.

 

[mrivc211]

As experience levels drop, we’re gonna see more of this kinda stuff. Not a slight against United, my comment is for the industry in general.

We can't get students to get their PPL's in under 80 hours. More than a few are taking over 100-120. These people aren't meant to be pilots. They're picking the profession for reasons other than their passion.

 

[zmiller4]

The issue I have is their analysis always blames inexperienced crews, even though they were once in that position and seemingly invincible to any such scenario, and never really interested in having a discussion from a true human factors standpoint, rather the discussion is more from a ridicule and “I told you so.” position.

+10 to Gryffindor here for pronoun trolling.

 

[roundout]

None of the items in that song are ironic, they just suck.

But she sold many records and earned many dollars.

 

[ASpilot2be]

But she sold many records and earned many dollars.

And helped give us Taylor Hawkins. RIP.

 

[roundout]

In summary, you had about 250 hours, no turbine time and a fresh commercial - nothing close to the ATP & 1,000 turbine. Yet earlier in this thread you assert that inexperience is the reason for "more of this kinda stuff". Do you have access to the FOQA & ASAP data, and already know the crew composition and training history ?



Currently United requirements are higher than when you entered the industry. By regulation, even RJ operators have higher requirements than when you started.

Rekt

 

[roundout]

And helped give us Taylor Hawkins. RIP.

Po some out