Thoughts? Pushback clearance not required, but...

Just because it's funny, AUS is planning to build a second concourse on top of where taxiways Golf/Hotel are today (number 8 on the diagram below; pre-COVID completion target was 2025). C1/C2, where VIR got a facefull of beachball, are on the ramp.

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We had the worst push back I've seen yet, in Vegas. They turned us the wrong way, and then when the CA intervened, they began doing what I could best describe as s turns for forever. Then when we told them to just stop/hold, they kept doing the s turns. The whole time I was talking to ground trying to apologize and guess what this weirdo was going to do next. The ramp/ground lady finally just said "Eskimo, do whatever you want". It was cringey
 
///AMG said:
We had the worst push back I've seen yet, in Vegas. They turned us the wrong way, and then when the CA intervened, they began doing what I could best describe as s turns for forever. Then when we told them to just stop/hold, they kept doing the s turns. The whole time I was talking to ground trying to apologize and guess what this weirdo was going to do next. The ramp/ground lady finally just said "Eskimo, do whatever you want". It was cringey
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At least the Vegas ramp controllers are awesome.
 
We usually make a call to ground when we are pushing in AUS, its not required, but our SIP says its advisory, which usually means we will make a call as we are pushing or about to push.

What SWA could have done, and maybe should have was tossed the plane tail west around G1 if they noticed the VIR guy once they were moving. I wasn't there, maybe Virgin was around the corner when SWA started the push. Its not like we can see around the planes that well.

Also, who knows if those comments were SWA... lots of other airlines there.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Don't ever change. Please.


You pushback against your CA for such a simple request?
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I'd say 99% of our CA's don't look to see if a push request is required. We have a little guide stating whether a ground/ramp/no call for push is required. "Pushback" may simply be the FO pointing out what's in the airline provided guide. I wouldn't beat a dead horse about it, but merely correcting the CA isn't the end of the world. If he/she still wants it, sure.
 
theres nothing cringier than someone demanding we call ground for pushback when there’s no one else moving on the ramp, the 10-7 specifically says not to call for push and ground/tower/clearance is combined and atc is clearly busy. don’t add to their workload with nonsense.
 
bimmerphile said:
theres nothing cringier than someone demanding we call ground for pushback when there’s no one else moving on the ramp, the 10-7 specifically says not to call for push and ground/tower/clearance is combined and atc is clearly busy. don’t add to their workload with nonsense.
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It’s worse when ATC has literally been yelling at people not to push.

Contrary to what my best bud in the whole world CC is implying I’ll still call. I just might mention that it’s not required and ATC is already hella mad about it.

A little SA goes a long way and all.


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I haven't been doing this that long but I usually just look at the other pilot and say "we ok to push?" and then trust whatever they tell me.

I'll continue with this method until it burns me I guess.
 
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HAHA... That's kind of how I was in some cases. I could read the airport procedures page and if it wasn't required I'd let the F/O either make the call or forget about it. Most of the time it was 4am and I didn't want to wake up the controller unnecessarily. I don't think we've argued about the "leaving assigned altitude call" on a descend at your discretion clearance in a while...
 
bimmerphile said:
theres nothing cringier than someone demanding we call ground for pushback when there’s no one else moving on the ramp, the 10-7 specifically says not to call for push and ground/tower/clearance is combined and atc is clearly busy. don’t add to their workload with nonsense.
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It just let's ground know that you're incapable of reading and will have no idea what you're doing while at their airport.
 
Derg said:
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I wonder if that's the same dude that likes to roll coal on people in their Prii.

I'm not a fan of the ramp in Austin, but Tacodeli is just sooooo good. It outweighs the bad of the ramp, except during a weather event. Also, as a general rule of thumb always give way to Southwest. Always.
 
IMO, this variation in process (getting clearance to push on a controlled ramp vs not advising on an uncontrolled ramp) displeases me. It allows for multiple different techniques for accomplishing a common operation on every flight; it requires some interpretation and decisionmaking on what could otherwise be a mechanical series of uniform steps. "Was there some alerting about our movement? OK, let's move."

I understand there are situations that cause not-advising to be preferred by some individuals. I guess I see it like stop signs at an intersection; they are not the most efficient kind of intersection for traffic flow, but they are generally very safe and low-cost compared to alternatives. There should not be decision paths about stop signs either, even if it's 2AM and you can see for miles, or are in a rush, or that crabby controller now happens to be tailgating you. I get that "uncontrolled" means there are no signs in any direction, but wouldn't a predictable behavior be nice?

But that's just, like, my opinion: have one standard behavior whereever possible.
 
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BobDDuck said:
I push back on something like that.
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SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
I certainly wouldn’t. I found it annoying. But he’s the boss.
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Baronman said:
I'd say 99% of our CA's don't look to see if a push request is required. We have a little guide stating whether a ground/ramp/no call for push is required. "Pushback" may simply be the FO pointing out what's in the airline provided guide. I wouldn't beat a dead horse about it, but merely correcting the CA isn't the end of the world. If he/she still wants it, sure.
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BEEF SUPREME said:
It’s worse when ATC has literally been yelling at people not to push.

Contrary to what my best bud in the whole world CC is implying I’ll still call. I just might mention that it’s not required and ATC is already hella mad about it.

A little SA goes a long way and all.


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You guys are cute. If you’re the FO, you’re making a courtesy call at AUS. It is literally the ONLY note under our Departures…

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BEEF SUPREME said:
It’s worse when ATC has literally been yelling at people not to push.

Contrary to what my best bud in the whole world CC is implying I’ll still call. I just might mention that it’s not required and ATC is already hella mad about it.

A little SA goes a long way and all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ya or you can just like have ground or tower on speaker while sitting at the gate and listen to what's going on before you push so you have SA instead of making yourself a distraction for ATC but yeah when you fly GA next time let ground know you're taxiing from the tie downs to the fuel pump
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
You guys are cute. If you’re the FO, you’re making a courtesy call at AUS. It is literally the ONLY note under our Departures…

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That's cool. My manual says nothing about that. And it was a comment in general about flying with totally out of touch captains that want to micromanage the conversation with ATC when it's their leg (or on the ground in an non PF/PM operation).
 
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