AS application question-employment history

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Problem is until the SLI comes out, we don't know what the totem pole looks like. Mark your calendars, Oct 11 decision and most likely Oct 12 distribute to pilot group. Prepare numerous bags of popcorn and your favorite beverage before getting on the forums that day! And if anyone works here, please make sure there are no kids, cats, or dogs in your vicnity that may be harmed from one's initial reaction to the result...

It’ll be something incredibly close to straight ratio by category and status. The Alaska guys will bitch for a while, and that will be that. Amazing how SLI works when management doesn’t try to play favorites and issue threats.

 

[mikecweb]

Ehhh, I’ve actuallty heard this from quite a few people who work there.

I keep hearing this where I work.

The guys who say this would lose a game of Your Ass Or A Hole In The Ground.

I hear it too from guys at work...

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It’ll be something incredibly close to straight ratio by category and status. The Alaska guys will bitch for a while, and that will be that. Amazing how SLI works when management doesn’t try to play favorites and issue threats.

I think it's gonna be the opposite. I think the VX guys will get screwed esp the 2007-2008 CAs. IIRC, on the VX proposal the first VX guy shows up about #125 or so and on the AS proposal the first VX guy shows up at about #640ish which is about a 2000 DOH. Both are ratio by cat/status methods but the question is just what ratio/value the arbitrators use for longevity/cat/status/etc.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I think it's gonna be the opposite. I think the VX guys will get screwed esp the 2007-2008 CAs. IIRC, on the VX proposal the first VX guy shows up about #125 or so and on the AS proposal the first VX guy shows up at about #640ish which is about a 2000 DOH. Both are ratio by cat/status methods but the question is just what ratio/value the arbitrators use for longevity/cat/status/etc.

There really isn’t any historical precedent for that. At least not without some crazy conditions and restrictions, which arbitrators try to avoid nowadays.

 

[JDean3204]

I keep hearing how people want to leave AS but haven’t physically met one that has left yet. The guys I feel for are the east coast guys with NYC closing, that would be a good reason to dust the resume off if you were completely set on east coast life long term. I don’t think there is any airline worth the hell of a cross country commute, not even Daddy D imho. So if someone like @Cherokee_Cruiser left for an east coast base at another airline that is totally understandable, to places like United, Delta and Jetblue though. Not sure what would make someone think going DEC at a regional after being at AS is a good idea in any way. That is just asking for disappointment and frustration as you spend a few years at the bottom of the CA seniority list at a regional, hope they like reserve and JM’ing.

A lot of guys also state it’s just a stepping stone airline, I don’t really agree with that. Again I would love to see some proof of the numbers that leave AS not in the form of retirements, a stepping stone airline doesn’t just give you 15% towards retirement and pay you over 120k year two. If that’s your definition of a stepping stone you have some extremely high expectations. There are a ton of people asking about the hiring window and asking questions all over social media expressing great interest in getting a job at Alaska. I don’t really see that with other “stepping stone” companies.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I keep hearing how people want to leave AS but haven’t physically met one that has left yet. The guys I feel for are the east coast guys with NYC closing, that would be a good reason to dust the resume off if you were completely set on east coast life long term. I don’t think there is any airline worth the hell of a cross country commute, not even Daddy D imho. So if someone like @Cherokee_Cruiser left for an east coast base at another airline that is totally understandable, to places like United, Delta and Jetblue though. Not sure what would make someone think going DEC at a regional after being at AS is a good idea in any way. That is just asking for disappointment and frustration as you spend a few years at the bottom of the CA seniority list at a regional, hope they like reserve and JM’ing.

A lot of guys also state it’s just a stepping stone airline, I don’t really agree with that. Again I would love to see some proof of the numbers that leave AS not in the form of retirements, a stepping stone airline doesn’t just give you 15% towards retirement and pay you over 120k year two. If that’s your definition of a stepping stone you have some extremely high expectations. There are a ton of people asking about the hiring window and asking questions all over social media expressing great interest in getting a job at Alaska. I don’t really see that with other “stepping stone” companies.

I agree but some additions: no one at the big 3 has to suffer a long term transcon commute. "Daddy D" has bases on both coasts so if you get stuck in the wrong coast, it's literally only months away that you can bid back to your proper coast. I wouldn't leave a CA position to go to jetBlue just to get NY back. I considered it as a FO, but with the upgrade at this stage that kinda move isn't worth it. I'd only leave for the big 3 and even then I'm considering staying. I think I may just wait and see if I get a call before moving from the east coast but if I don't, and I move to CA again, then I think screw it and hang on for the long haul and see what happens.

 

[ASpilot2be]

I keep hearing how people want to leave AS but haven’t physically met one that has left yet. The guys I feel for are the east coast guys with NYC closing, that would be a good reason to dust the resume off if you were completely set on east coast life long term. I don’t think there is any airline worth the hell of a cross country commute, not even Daddy D imho. So if someone like @Cherokee_Cruiser left for an east coast base at another airline that is totally understandable, to places like United, Delta and Jetblue though. Not sure what would make someone think going DEC at a regional after being at AS is a good idea in any way. That is just asking for disappointment and frustration as you spend a few years at the bottom of the CA seniority list at a regional, hope they like reserve and JM’ing.

A lot of guys also state it’s just a stepping stone airline, I don’t really agree with that. Again I would love to see some proof of the numbers that leave AS not in the form of retirements, a stepping stone airline doesn’t just give you 15% towards retirement and pay you over 120k year two. If that’s your definition of a stepping stone you have some extremely high expectations. There are a ton of people asking about the hiring window and asking questions all over social media expressing great interest in getting a job at Alaska. I don’t really see that with other “stepping stone” companies.

There is one guy on here who left Alaska for United. He seems pretty happy with his choice.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

There is one guy on here who left Alaska for United. He seems pretty happy with his choice.

More than just one!

 

[ASpilot2be]

More than just one!

Oh really!? I just knew of one that went from Alaska to United.

 

[jtrain609]

I agree but some additions: no one at the big 3 has to suffer a long term transcon commute. "Daddy D" has bases on both coasts so if you get stuck in the wrong coast, it's literally only months away that you can bid back to your proper coast. I wouldn't leave a CA position to go to jetBlue just to get NY back. I considered it as a FO, but with the upgrade at this stage that kinda move isn't worth it. I'd only leave for the big 3 and even then I'm considering staying. I think I may just wait and see if I get a call before moving from the east coast but if I don't, and I move to CA again, then I think screw it and hang on for the long haul and see what happens.

So, let me just make sure I understand you correctly.

You're willing to take something like a 63% pay cut, from $232 to $85, just to drive to work.

That's going from $17,400 a month to $6,375 per month.

If you spent $300 a week buying tickets for your commute, you'd STILL be coming out ahead by around $9,000 a month.

I'm not saying it's ideal, not by a long shot, but if I told my wife I was going to take that kind of a pay cut because I was angry about watching movies for 12 hours a week, she'd divorce me, because it would be clear she had married a fool.

 

[Nark]

I love how up in arms the JC crowds get about another persons thoughts or actions. Neither of which affect you in anyway shape or form. If anything, you might get a bump in seniority.

Do your thing, because it may work for you. You're an adult, and if you want to switch jobs to one in which you can drive to work. Good on you. If you want to stay at the current job because it affords private school's for junior. Good for you.

It doesn't affect me, or anyone else. Do your thing, because you are an adult and understand that actions have responsibilities and consequences.


Let the JC mafia get blue in the face.

 

[JordanD]

I love how up in arms the JC crowds get about another persons thoughts or actions. Neither of which affect you in anyway shape or form. If anything, you might get a bump in seniority.

Do your thing, because it may work for you. You're an adult, and if you want to switch jobs to one in which you can drive to work. Good on you. If you want to stay at the current job because it affords private school's for junior. Good for you.

It doesn't affect me, or anyone else. Do your thing, because you are an adult and understand that actions have responsibilities and consequences.


Let the JC mafia get blue in the face.

Eh, in my opinion yes and no. There's probably a genuine concern of not wanting someone in the JC community to make what could be a big career mistake. And people probably want to avoid the inevitable "well, we told you so" when someone doesn't heed advice and then starts complaining about how much their life sucks. But yeah, as someone who would kill to go to Alaska right now, I'm all for another spot on the list opening up. Another part of the issue that I think bugs people, which I'm guilty of, is the perception that someone is complaining without knowing how good they have it. I'm doing what's probably a way worse commute, for probably a third of the money, with no relief in sight. My fault, yes, but I would absolutely love to be in his shoes and at least have the extra money and schedule flexibility. I get a 4% 401k match, no loss of medical/license unless it comes out of my own pocket. When someone gets 15% chucked into an account without having to contribute anything and is still complaining, it kind of wants to make you shake them by the collar and say "DUDE!"

But... I agree too. He's a big boy with his own priorities, he'll make his own decision.

 

[jtrain609]

Eh, in my opinion yes and no. There's probably a genuine concern of not wanting someone in the JC community to make what could be a big career mistake. And people probably want to avoid the inevitable "well, we told you so" when someone doesn't heed advice and then starts complaining about how much their life sucks. But yeah, as someone who would kill to go to Alaska right now, I'm all for another spot on the list opening up. Another part of the issue that I think bugs people, which I'm guilty of, is the perception that someone is complaining without knowing how good they have it. I'm doing what's probably a way worse commute, for probably a third of the money, with no relief in sight. My fault, yes, but I would absolutely love to be in his shoes and at least have the extra money and schedule flexibility. I get a 4% 401k match, no loss of medical/license unless it comes out of my own pocket. When someone gets 15% chucked into an account without having to contribute anything and is still complaining, it kind of wants to make you shake them by the collar and say "DUDE!"

But... I agree too. He's a big boy with his own priorities, he'll make his own decision.

Yeah so I've gotta be honest with you, the memory of this seems to fade pretty quickly.

I've had multiple captains tell me I was a fool for coming to work at Juicy Juice Airways because if I had just hung out at my regional a little while longer DELTA would have called, and DELTA is the best airline ever and if we had DELTA'S contract life would be AMAZING.

They say this without realizing that for a guy in my position, American would likely provide the best seniority progression going forward.

These captains are also convinced that with enough PIC time you can get hired at DELTA, or UNITED, or AMERICAN, or do whatever you want because Juicy Juice Airways is the worst airline since ever. But I know multiple LCA from my last gig who waited a long, long, long time to finally get a call, most of them with better qualifications than me. More importantly, they were unquestionably kinder people than I am, and I could never understand why they didn't have multiple job interviews lined up. A few of them got the call and were told no thanks by Delta, United, FedEx, or Southwest.

So you're right, when someone is working at an airline that has a topped out A320 captain pay scale that's within 2% of United's A320 captain rate, and is considering jumping ship just because they currently have to commute to work, it makes you wonder what's wrong with them. Worse, I'm pretty sure JetBlue and Alaska will merge one day, and that will result in a New York base as soon as that SLI is executed.

TL;DR, the long game is the only game, those who managed to Delta/United/American/Alaska/Southwest/JetBlue/Spirit/Frontier should have some appreciation for what they have, and if things suck now, they'll get better eventually.

 

[Roger Roger]

Yeah so I've gotta be honest with you, the memory of this seems to fade pretty quickly.

I've had multiple captains tell me I was a fool for coming to work at Juicy Juice Airways because if I had just hung out at my regional a little while longer DELTA would have called, and DELTA is the best airline ever and if we had DELTA'S contract life would be AMAZING.

They say this without realizing that for a guy in my position, American would likely provide the best seniority progression going forward.

These captains are also convinced that with enough PIC time you can get hired at DELTA, or UNITED, or AMERICAN, or do whatever you want because Juicy Juice Airways is the worst airline since ever. But I know multiple LCA from my last gig who waited a long, long, long time to finally get a call, most of them with better qualifications than me. More importantly, they were unquestionably kinder people than I am, and I could never understand why they didn't have multiple job interviews lined up. A few of them got the call and were told no thanks by Delta, United, FedEx, or Southwest.

So you're right, when someone is working at an airline that has a topped out A320 captain pay scale that's within 2% of United's A320 captain rate, and is considering jumping ship just because they currently have to commute to work, it makes you wonder what's wrong with them. Worse, I'm pretty sure JetBlue and Alaska will merge one day, and that will result in a New York base as soon as that SLI is executed.

TL;DR, the long game is the only game, those who managed to Delta/United/American/Alaska/Southwest/JetBlue/Spirit/Frontier should have some appreciation for what they have, and if things suck now, they'll get better eventually.

I had coffee with a college classmate yesterday who’s been at Johnny Cash airlines for about 18 months.
He said it’s basically the worst thing ever and he wishes he was back doing rotations to fly a Crash 8 in the sandbox.
Wait no...he gave a great rundown of what he had to do to get hired and said they’re in a weird time right now with the merger playing out but all in all he’s super happy there.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yeah so I've gotta be honest with you, the memory of this seems to fade pretty quickly.

I've had multiple captains tell me I was a fool for coming to work at Juicy Juice Airways because if I had just hung out at my regional a little while longer DELTA would have called, and DELTA is the best airline ever and if we had DELTA'S contract life would be AMAZING.

They say this without realizing that for a guy in my position, American would likely provide the best seniority progression going forward.

These captains are also convinced that with enough PIC time you can get hired at DELTA, or UNITED, or AMERICAN, or do whatever you want because Juicy Juice Airways is the worst airline since ever. But I know multiple LCA from my last gig who waited a long, long, long time to finally get a call, most of them with better qualifications than me. More importantly, they were unquestionably kinder people than I am, and I could never understand why they didn't have multiple job interviews lined up. A few of them got the call and were told no thanks by Delta, United, FedEx, or Southwest.

So you're right, when someone is working at an airline that has a topped out A320 captain pay scale that's within 2% of United's A320 captain rate, and is considering jumping ship just because they currently have to commute to work, it makes you wonder what's wrong with them. Worse, I'm pretty sure JetBlue and Alaska will merge one day, and that will result in a New York base as soon as that SLI is executed.

TL;DR, the long game is the only game, those who managed to Delta/United/American/Alaska/Southwest/JetBlue/Spirit/Frontier should have some appreciation for what they have, and if things suck now, they'll get better eventually.

This 1000X. So much this.

My app has been in at Delta for a looooong time now. Same with SWA and United.

It’s funny and depressing AF, listening to guys who haven’t applied to a job in 10-20-30 years, all telling me Delta’s would call right away. If only I applied...

[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roger Roger]

This 1000X. So much this.

My app has been in at Delta for a looooong time now. Same with SWA and United.

It’s funny and depressing AF, listening to guys who haven’t applied to a job in 10-20-30 years, all telling me Delta’s would call right away. If only I applied...

[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We’re hiring, you should put your stuff in hyuk hyuk!

 

[alaskadrifter]

Sounds like they are only looking to hire 12, any truth to that?

 

[ShortField]

Sounds like they are only looking to hire 12, any truth to that?

I haven’t heard any numbers thrown out recently. They were saying 160 next year if I recall.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

So, let me just make sure I understand you correctly.

You're willing to take something like a 63% pay cut, from $232 to $85, just to drive to work.

That's going from $17,400 a month to $6,375 per month.

If you spent $300 a week buying tickets for your commute, you'd STILL be coming out ahead by around $9,000 a month.

I'm not saying it's ideal, not by a long shot, but if I told my wife I was going to take that kind of a pay cut because I was angry about watching movies for 12 hours a week, she'd divorce me, because it would be clear she had married a fool.

My plan is to bid and hold the NY virtual base until it closes March 2nd, and then move. Apr 1st the rate goes to 244/hr.

Here's the problem with that math above. It's not the transcon commute being hard (or expensive) as much as it is sitting reserve in a pad and hardly being home. Heck, EWR-LAX is easy but it's just a long flight both ways. VX gives 13 hard days off per month for reserves and those are full calendar days off so that's actually okay. AS gives hours off for reserve pilots. So you don't get 2 or 3 days off, you get 48 or 72 hrs off. Say you finish today Tuesday at 8pm. With 48 hrs off, they can have you back on at 8pm Thursday. That's only one calendar day off in between. So commute on a redeye arriving Wednesday morning at home on the east coast, feeling beat/tired. Then Thursday around noon take a flight back to the west coast to be available by 8pm. That's literally 12 hrs of commute flights to be home for barely 27-30 hrs. Now we don't switch to the AS reserve rules until March bid period so there's time. But I will not transcon commute to AS reserve rules and why March is a good deadline to move by. Reserves at Alaska get a stretch of 120 hrs off, 72 hrs off, 48 hrs, and 48 hrs off. That's just not commutable for someone transcon.

You say the wife would leave if giving up a Capt salary to start at 85/hr, but would she be okay putting up with a 12 hr transcon commute and being home for realistically 8-10 days/month? I think my wife would have a problem with this transcon commute to reserve long term because I'd hardly ever be around. It's not even her though, I also hate the commute and boredom in a crashpad. I'm finding out that I'm just not built to be a long term commuter. I have commuted but in short stretches (no more than 7-8 months) and then just moved to base. I miss the two young ones and moreso when you're sitting in a pad not flying for days on and they're at home. You realize that time could have been spent with them like a "day off" if you lived in base.

Anyway my point being I'm not looking to quit to give up a commute. I'll move. I am/was looking at the big 3 to either stay here in the NYC area, or, to eventually return to the NYC area. I figure if I get a call/hired before March, then go to the big 3 and not move. But if no call by then and I'm moving myself west anyway, later if I get hired at the big 3 I'd have to move back again to the east. The question is if you've already pulled the trigger and moved is it worth giving up all that seniority to start over at the bottom just to move back?

A good friend of mine had 'the talk' and he brought up great points I didn't even consider. He said my family isn't even in NJ (correct). Mine is a 6 hr drive and hers is a 1 hr 15 minute flight (or a 10 hr drive which I've done once). His point was it's not like we're living that close to them in the same city or state. He said what's the difference between you driving 6 hrs or just having to take a 5.5 hr flight home to see them. And same with the wife's family, that I'm already flying 1:15 to see them so what's a 5.5 hr flight again? Honestly, that's a great point I didn't even consider that much. As it stands living in NJ, we see both our families 4 times per year. If we live west, why not just buy confirmed roundtrip tickets (stress free) and come home twice or thrice per year?

I think this is my new mindset. If called before the move west in March, then go to the big 3. If not called by then then move west and ride it out.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sounds like they are only looking to hire 12, any truth to that?

12 is the number for upgrades that just opened up for bid today on the AS side only. Once the bid closes and the award is published the pdf file shows the FO vacancies that remain. I'll try and post the number here once the result is out.