Skywest Questions
- Thread starter flyingbum
- Start date
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
This happens at ALPA carriers too. We are required to check our schedule the day before a RAP after 1500 unless it’s a hard no fly day (vac, personal drop, gold day etc).
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
I don't understand how that's legal? If it's my day off its my day off. If I am on a RAP from 9-9 tomorrow, I can turn my phone on at 9 and be available. Not turn my phone on at 9 and see I missed a 4am show with a SAD on my schedule. I've asked but no one will give me an explanation. It sounds like I'm breaking FAR117 by doing that?
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
I think that used to be the case years ago. When you could get a west coast base on the CRJ and not sit reserve, and nobody was paying the way Republic and Endeavor pays. I believe we bring in around 70ish a month. It rose after the announcement of the TA. People assumed it would pass so the numbers rose. Supposedly our cadets were down to 30 a class when it was normally in the 70+. Which is kinda worrysome seeing as joining the cadet program costs you nothing and you sign nothing. You may as well do it. People didn't even want to do that. Again, TA news put and a recruiter said the classes spiked to 70+ again. Also, the rotary wing program brought a lot through.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Ummm....
American Pie
Best in Show
Butter
Schitt's Creek
That practice stopped after 117. Otherwise you don't have legal rest.
Karnage
I-am-a-pirate. I do not need credentials!
The theory (policy) is that trips are only supposed to be assigned to guys who specifically proffered for them and that it's done 5 days out, so there should be ample time for the people who volunteered to be assigned specific trips to check their schedule and receive the required rest. It also states that those who do not proffer for trips are supposed to be held to the older standard of required voice contact from crew support during an assigned RAP.
Unfortunately, the system is assigning and auto accepting trips regardless or whether a pilot has proffered for it and so a pilot who has not proffered for a trips and who follows (and foolishly assumes the company is also following) the policy manual and believes that they are not obligated to check their schedule until the start of their RAP are being marked as no-shows for trips they were assigned but never knew about.
Cazadores
Well-Known Member
You have an agreement which also likely requires the assignment to be within required and RAP time limits, and assigned by 1500 the day before your RAP.. SkyWest currently has a "on your day off continually check to see if you are assigned a showtime of 5am on the day of your 9am RAP start because.....well because we can, and no one is going to stop it."
Its different. You are required to see if you have an assignment after the start of your RAP the next day, the night before at a given time. Agreed to by your representatives. Your not sitting at home, planning a 7am commute to your 9am RAP, only to find out you have been assigned a 515 show you have no chance to make, at midnight.
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I've only seen one of those movies and maybe he's changed roles in recent years, but he always played a good •.
Perhaps you remember his character from National Lampoon's Vacation
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
Yes you are right. The cut off for the company to assign us a trip for the next day is 1500. Our reserve set up is completely different than skywests, I was just pointing out to @tcco94 that some places do require you to check your schedule on a day off.
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
We still get legal rest being that we are long call reserve and we can’t show before 1000. All I was pointing out was that some companies still make you check your schedule on a day off.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
That sounds like an agreed upon proposition though. I'm not on long call either. I'm talking about short call. I have to be at home the day before a RAP (can't be out travelling out of state and commute in day of before my RAP) and forced to check my schedule because I can have a trip before my RAP even begins. If I don't, I will be punished on my reliability as a no show. How is that legal per 117 if I'm in my rest period? If I'm long call, I get it that it's different. Before this proffering I could fly in on a flight that landed at 9am in SLC, be notifiable and legal to work. Now, if I do that I will be punished. I'm not trying to be difficult, I legitimately don't understand how this practice is legal and now appears if I don't question this practice I'm accepting breaking the regs. I'm not one to argue with the company or crew support, but I expect the decency to follow the regulations for everyone's safety. You multiply this practice x4 RAP periods in a month and that's essentially 4 days off I have to be at home. A new hire needs to consider this. Correct me if I'm wrong but nobody has explained this with 117 how this is legal.
Directly from the ALPA questions on FAR 117:
Can the certificate holder require a flightcrew member to check a computer, e-mail calendar, text or other conversation media to determine assignment, changes, etc. during a rest period?
No. During a rest period, regardless of length, a flightcrew member must be free from all restraint. If a flightcrew member is required to do something by the certificate holder, he/she is not free from all restraint.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
This happens because the FAA doesn't know it's happening. Companies don't exactly report out and say, "Hey! HEY MR. POI! YOU KNOW WE'RE VIOLATING PART 117, RIGHT? RIGHT!? OK!!!!"
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
Wow has reserve gotten that bad there? It is totally different since I left.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
It tanked with reserve bid days off and proffering. I guess they have no intention to fix it either.
RMCBear08
Well-Known Member
FAA's Anonymous Tipline: FAA Hotline Reporting Form
I know a few people who have been given SADs due to the proffering nonsense, filed a report (on top of other company reports) and have had their SADs removed.
I have to believe that enough anonymous reports will get the feds interested and sniffing around, to the point where the company will have no choice but to admit it's illegal and change the policy.
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Cory Trevor
Well-Known Member
And that’s SAPA saying it’s fixed, file a report and they take the SAD off. Sorry, but that isn’t fixed, fixed is it doesn’t happen anymore, which unfortunately I don’t see happening. In their eyes they’ll just call someone else out or have a ready standing by, but it’s worth it to them for the people that live in base and don’t care enough to fight it and will come out earlier than they’re really responsible to.
RMCBear08
Well-Known Member
Oh I completely agree. Taking away a punishment that should never have been there in the first place and then declaring the problem "fixed" is absolutely ridiculous.
Unfortunately, the company knows this and they also know there's nothing we, or SAPA, can do about it except hold our breath and stomp our feet.
The only way this gets resolved is with outside help. Until ALPA shows up, file a report with the FAA.
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Cory Trevor
Well-Known Member
Was it common knowledge that SLC was going to be a C Series base for Delta? I don't really pay attention to these things. Does that our 175 base won't be expanding too much?
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Heheheheheh...
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
The CS base in SLC was a curve ball. Network kept saying “NYC first then LAX”. SLC came out of no where