NKS TA released

Seggy said:
Huh?
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Seggy said:
What is that?
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BobDDuck said:
I'd buy that prior to 117. Post 117, especially with long(ish) haul operations, I'd say it generates about the same to maybe a little bit less productivity for the company.
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Actually, the productivity gains come almost all from known abscences. Vacation, training, Mil Leave, and biggest of all, the month to month transition (worth 8-9% alone).

With LOT bidding, these trips (conflicts) that drop fall into open flying and would need to be covered by reserves. The month to month transition is especially tough because you have to staff for all that flying to clustered over 7-8 days, and then not for the rest of the month.

Since PBS won't place a trip over a known conflict or abscence, all of that is eliminated. It is THE big deal about PBS.

The open time thing is also a big deal. They can dial it down to near nothing. PBS generally needs a little bit of open time to work correctly, otherwise the system can't really do its job right. That's why you need some iron clad rules about how the system operate.
 
Richman said:
Actually, the productivity gains come almost all from known abscences. Vacation, training, Mil Leave, and biggest of all, the month to month transition (worth 8-9% alone).

With LOT bidding, these trips (conflicts) that drop fall into open flying and would need to be covered by reserves. The month to month transition is especially tough because you have to staff for all that flying to clustered over 7-8 days, and then not for the rest of the month.

Since PBS won't place a trip over a known conflict or abscence, all of that is eliminated. It is THE big deal about PBS.

The open time thing is also a big deal. They can dial it down to near nothing. PBS generally needs a little bit of open time to work correctly, otherwise the system can't really do its job right. That's why you need some iron clad rules about how the system operate.
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I think you and Bobert the duck are on the same page. I think that he is saying is that with 117 the rest rules for crossing time zones negates some of the efficiency gained by all the stuff you correctly mentioned.
 
The TA certainly leaves some areas to be desired. However, there are massive gains in many more areas! So much so it's easily a yes vote for me. Remember, the mediator already said the deal was good enough months ago. You think she's (or the rest of the NMB) going to have any sympathy for us if we shoot this down? That would mean, I'd say at a minimum, another year or more working under current book and continuing the atrocious pay at the same time. I definitely agree that work rules > pay...however, when you're so far behind the curve, something's gotta give.

I'm fine going to industry standard rules for industry standard pay. Especially since we're improving on our pathetic LTD, improving significantly on retirement, improving scope considerably as well (would've been better to get a SWA type scope...but this one will do for now).

From what I've seen, the most vocal No-voters haven't really bothered to learn the nuance of the TA or listened to the NC/ MEC about how they arrived at this point. There is soooo much misinformation being pushed on the group chats and forums it's comical. For many, unless the deal brought LegacyXXX +1 across the board, they weren't going to be satisfied. Sadly, the mediator felt differently. And hey, they don't call it negotiations for nothing...there is no such thing as walking in a making demands. Hmmmm, perhaps our NC should've collectively held their breath, stomped their feet, or both, to make a point? The roadshows began yesterday. From what I've heard there have been many ardent no-voters that are now firmly in the yes camp. Why? Because they took the time to sit and listen to facts, removed emotion from the thought process, and now have good, verifiable information instead of fear-mongered distortions of reality.
 
amorris311 said:
Thanks for posting this homie.
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No problem. Like I said previously, there is plenty in here to be concerned about. However, there's even more to be happy about. The NC did a great job getting as much as they could, where they could.
The rescheduling language is one of the bigger hot-button topics. From day 1 of negotiations the company made it clear this was one of their must-haves. So the NC gave them the flexibility they were looking for, but made it very expensive to do so. Not great, but at least you're getting paid for the inconvenience.
The reserve drops (or lack thereof) is bad. No way around that. Current book reserve language here is probably industry leading. Company also said this was one of their must-haves. In my opinion, they swung the pendulum way too far in the other direction. But, again, these are negotiations. There are give and takes, and you're not gonna like everything.
 
Losing Reserve drops is pretty huge, for Anyone that hasn't upgraded and got off reserve already its a huge loss in QOL at some point. I understand where the company is coming from as there was a number of pilots that bid reserve to play the system. What I find kind of frustrating is that the rules for reserve drops change on DOS to something I feel is a great compromise, and then changes again on the implementation of PBS to no drops at all. I really wish there was a compromise somewhere in the middle for this one.
 
Richman said:
Actually, the productivity gains come almost all from known abscences. Vacation, training, Mil Leave, and biggest of all, the month to month transition (worth 8-9% alone).

With LOT bidding, these trips (conflicts) that drop fall into open flying and would need to be covered by reserves. The month to month transition is especially tough because you have to staff for all that flying to clustered over 7-8 days, and then not for the rest of the month.

Since PBS won't place a trip over a known conflict or abscence, all of that is eliminated. It is THE big deal about PBS.

The open time thing is also a big deal. They can dial it down to near nothing. PBS generally needs a little bit of open time to work correctly, otherwise the system can't really do its job right. That's why you need some iron clad rules about how the system operate.
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Yeah, but what's the advantage if the trips that touch drop but you have to still ensure you stay above 75 hrs min. Which very often means you have to find something in the open time pot and add it your schedule. With line bidding rules like that, I'd take PBS any day of the week.
 
I plan on going to the roadshow with my wife, but I know my vote won't change, not being able to drop reserve days is a no for me.
 
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