Need help with training contract

Is this for a super dooper awesome type rating? In today's climate there is never a reason to sign a training contract like this. Its one thing if its just the standard "Please pay us back if you leave. And we'll prorate it too. But if you don't pay us back...well, that's cool too. Please work for us." but with hiring being like it is I wouldn't sign sheet.
 
Update for those who gave their two cents, I have to admit I am not comfortable with the contract at all. Oddly enough a lot of airline pilots friends said it is something they can work with. A friend who runs a successful business said it is not ideal but he would go for it if he were I. MidlifeFlyer said it is not the best but not a deal breaker either.

One training captain who works for a legacy said NO.

I am waiting to hear back from two attorneys. Luckily I have friends otherwise these consultations would have run me a grand ( one employment attorney wants $450 an hour for 3 hours minimum.) Lesson for everybody -- it is best to never ever get in trouble to begin with.

After all was said and done I am still not happy about this. Maybe it is a sign to just leave it behind...dunno
 
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I'd work for a regional before ever signing another training contract. Any company that has to financially tie you to them ain't worth crap.
 
flyinghedgehog said:
Folks,

I got a job offer recently and I am looking over the contract. Got the offer last week and had been asking friends for their opinions. For some reason the light bulb just went off today and I realize I should actually ask an attorney.

What I am concerned about are the following clauses. I wonder if those sound reasonable to you and if you would accept them.

so here goes
1. Company agrees to advance the pilot training expense

2. If I fail the training I will have to refund the company the total cost of training

3. If employment is terminated for any reason, with or without cause, prior to 12 consecutive months of active service after the completion of training, I agree to refund the company on the pro rata basis.

Opinions are appreciated. I am also seeking contract review from an aviation attorney. If anyone think they may be able to recommend an attorney or ARE attorney themselves willing to help please PM or tell me to PM you. I am unable to disclose any details (including the state) in this post.

I am wondering most if #3 is a deal breaker. I personally feel that I would rather have that amended to "If employment is terminated due to misconduct". The language of the contract as is seems too open ended.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
In what state is the contract being offered?
 
flyinghedgehog said:
Update for those who gave their two cents, I have to admit I am not comfortable with the contract at all. Oddly enough a lot of airline pilots friends said it is something they can work with. A friend who runs a successful business said it is not ideal but he would go for it if he were I. MidlifeFlyer said it is not the best but not a deal breaker either.

One training captain who works for a legacy said NO.

I am waiting to hear back from two attorneys. Luckily I have friends otherwise these consultations would have run me a grand ( one employment attorney wants $450 an hour for 3 hours minimum.) Lesson for everybody -- it is best to never ever get in trouble to begin with.

After all was said and done I am still not happy about this. Maybe it is a sign to just leave it behind...dunno
Click to expand...
Ultimately, all a lawyer can do is tell you what the documents say and mean, whether and to what extent they are enforceable and, perhaps, what might be negotiable. He or she can't make the risk/benefit decision for you.
 
Yeah with the amount of hours I have it is either this or PC-12 operators. Or Ameriflight (scary!) Or maybe flying turbo prop in Alaska. I probably should reach out to those who have worked in Alaska to see if there is any operators that are not shady.
 
@ Crop Duster you must have flown in Alaska? Care to tell which employers are ok to work for? Want to take this stuff to PM?
 
Ask yourself why they are asking guys to sign such a bad contract? They can't retain pilots?

Now ask yourself Why can't they retain pilots?

IMO that contract seems outdated as was written for when pilots were dime a dozen. I would try to not sign it if at all possible.
 
Update
Found some more insider information.

Yes, there are some problems with the way the company operates. They are also having a hard time retaining pilots (hired 3 FOs in a year, most of them quit and paid back the money because they were miserable) Considering how their equipment is desirable (skinny jets), there is something not quite right.

Unfortunately for those of you who say training contracts are a thing of the past.... well true if you are above 1500 hours going to regional but definitely not true with most 135 operators.
Aircargo Carriers have training contract (12 months not pro rated)
Freightrunner also has one
Planesense has one (18 months for FOs,$18000, pro rated)
a lot of Turbo prop air ambulance operators have one (AMRG definitely does, for example. They do not pro rate till after the first 6 months)
I believe Tradewinds aviation and Boutique air have them (not sure about the terms and conditions)


As of now the only company I know that does not have one is Mountain Air Cargo. I will go in and negotiate the one thing that I cant deal with and if they agree to my terms I may have to bite the bullet. Either this or another who knows how many weeks/months looking for a job. If you really don't think I should sign the training contract, I agree but it would be much appreciated if you could suggest an out (like, who would be interested in hiring someone with 1400 TT and all 135 PIC minimum met, except for being short of night time by 50 hours). I do not have a CFI rating.

Thanks
 
I would not mind spending at least a year with whoever fronts my training. The only reasons I would not stay is if the operation is shady or doing something illegal like the 24/7 rolling rest period deal. That is the only reason I am wary of contract, actually. I don't want to be in situations where I literally have to chew my leg off to stay alive or to keep my certificate intact. If you don't bend any airplane that would be fine, but if you do and there is an investigation you will most likely be thrown under the bus.
 
flyinghedgehog said:
I would not mind spending at least a year with whoever fronts my training. The only reasons I would not stay is if the operation is shady or doing something illegal like the 24/7 rolling rest period deal. That is the only reason I am wary of contract, actually. I don't want to be in situations where I literally have to chew my leg off to stay alive or to keep my certificate intact. If you don't bend any airplane that would be fine, but if you do and there is an investigation you will most likely be thrown under the bus.
Click to expand...
Not having specifically to do with training contracts, but this aspect of Part 135 - operators pushing for activities that may result in FAR deviations, but the pilots getting the certificate action when they occur - was a concern shared with me by an FAA attorney over dinner a few years ago.
 
flyinghedgehog said:
Wonder why operators do not get their air carrier permit/certificate action??? Because they've got bucks?
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It's not the bucks. The more closely accurate cynicism is, it's the low-hanging fruit.

It's easy to prove a pilot deviation; much harder to prove the operator told them to. Not impossible, but more difficult. If there was a lot of similar deviations from a particular operator, it would be worth the allocation of resources.
 
I hope life never gets so bad that I feel I would have to sign a P.O.S. like that.

If they need a quick 10 grand, and are fat on pilots, they could fire you for using too much salt on your fries, and ask for the cash?
 
Declined an offer last week from a different company. That promissory note basically said that $ is due if you leave, not if you're let go. Prorated 12mo, but a new 12mo one every sim ride. With these guys it was also a part of their agreement with the owners of the managed airplanes, so not something that can be easily waived.
 
BigZ said:
Declined an offer last week from a different company. That promissory note basically said that $ is due if you leave, not if you're let go. Prorated 12mo, but a new 12mo one every sim ride. With these guys it was also a part of their agreement with the owners of the managed airplanes, so not something that can be easily waived.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a company I worked for....for two months:/
 
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