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Well-Known Member
Wow.
Guess they didn't learn the first time.. Delta's new KSEA-PAJN run.
- Thread starter Capt. Chaos
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🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Wow.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Wow.
z987k
Well-Known Member
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You can't possibly understand how hard it is to fly in Alaska, because only men, MANLY MEN, can fly in Alaska, and nobody that is now at a legacy ever flew for Alaska, and never could have flown in Alaska, and will never be able to fly in Alaska in the future.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Nobody has ever said that... You folks are touchy aren't ya?
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
Alaska's RNP: RVR 5000 with a DA of 336ft at the runway threshold.
VS.
Delta LDA Z: 2 miles vis and MDA of 1000ft and the MAP 3.2 miles from the runway.
Nothing manufactured there.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Seggy
Well-Known Member
How often in June, July, August are the mins that low that Alaska needs to shoot an approach to their RNP mins?
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Read into it what you may, frankly, I find all of this discussion pretty amusing - if you think I'm touchy about this stuff, you probably don't know me very well. It's funny, everywhere I go, as soon as I mention that I flew in Alaska, everyone tries to talk about how they could do it too, and how easy it would be. I just say, "come on up then, it can be fun!" - and much of the flying up here is very fun. Everyone wants to break out the rulers about Alaska flying. I don't really care - being an "Alaska-Pilot (TM)" isn't what defines me as a person.
My favorite are guys like you who decry how dangerous we all are just by virtue of being up here, then say how easy it would be for airline brand X to arrive tomorrow and do the same thing (that's a bit of irony for you too). Guys act like it's some personal affront to them to say, "hey man, this is more complicated than you think." Personally, I could give a damn if Delta is successful in JNU, I don't even live in South East anymore - but I will say that it's a challenging place, unlike any of the other places I've ever flown. I also happen to be pretty familiar with the topography, people, culture, and generally most things about that part of the world, and when guys like @Capt. Chaos or @Roger Roger or other guys who are more experienced with the idiosyncrasies of that part of the world speak - I listen. When you speak about union/ALPA issues, or 121 flying, I listen.
Anecdotally, fairly frequently. There is climate information available in excel, that's put out by the NWS. We download that when we're finding out whether it's worth it to do scheduled service to a particular destination, what days we should go, and so on and so forth - if you're really interested.
I'm not touchy, I'm just amused that these airports that we used to fly to, that were part of our post Western-merger route network are seen as the Monolith described Europa in 2010.
Who cares. More guys at the layover hotel to drink with that wear different uniforms. If Alaska was going to fly to Bogota or Quito, I'd say "Hey! I know some great places for beer and beef in Bogota!" rather than "ZOMG, there shall be gnashing of teeth and thou shall fail as it's previous and virginal, like all of the she-being that is…. Alaska"
I hope we have an all new-hire, fresh-out-of-training crew just to prove how overhyped the issue is. It's an airport, not a moon landing.
Who cares. More guys at the layover hotel to drink with that wear different uniforms. If Alaska was going to fly to Bogota or Quito, I'd say "Hey! I know some great places for beer and beef in Bogota!" rather than "ZOMG, there shall be gnashing of teeth and thou shall fail as it's previous and virginal, like all of the she-being that is…. Alaska"
I hope we have an all new-hire, fresh-out-of-training crew just to prove how overhyped the issue is. It's an airport, not a moon landing.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I completely agree with this, believe it or not - it's not even that technically challenging of an airport when the wx is good. That said, there is a lot of merit to the criticism that "hey, there are some challenging aspects to this airport - oh and by the way, DL has to keep customers happy through the period of time it will take to iron out the wrinkles." Personally, I think keeping the customers happy there is going to be a lot more challenging than DL thinks when they miss JNU and fly back to SEA when pax on the AS flight made it in. That's going to be the challenge - Juneau is one of the few places in the world I know of where most passengers will pay more money for better reliability.
Now when DL has everything figured out with the approach and has the same mins as AS, then yeah - no problem, but if it takes too long they'll develop an unreliable reputation and people in that part of the planet may be less likely to buy tickets - we'll see.
Again though, my stance is "I don't care unless I need a cheaper ticket to JNU in the next year." But when guys who are highly specialized in an area speak up - I tend to listen. For what it's worth, I'd like to know more the flying you guys do in Bogata and other crazy mountainous areas - and the development of approaches to places is fascinating to me - that process is what we should be talking about here, in my opinion.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Alaska isn't dangerous because it's Alaska.
Alaska is dangerous because a culture of stupidity has encouraged bad decision making on a pretty large scale with the excuse of, "It's Alaska!!!" Folks feel that the rules simply can't apply because if they did, then the job wouldn't get done, and thus people make horrible decisions, and it gets people killed at a fairly high rate up there.
And that excuse is complete BS.
But make no mistake, it's the bad decision making, and not the terrain, weather, or any other factor, that leads to Alaska being dangerous.
If you take part 121 operating rules, stick to SOP, and do your job properly (by doing things like going around at minimums if you don't see the runway), then it's no more dangerous than any other part of the world.
Alaska is dangerous because a culture of stupidity has encouraged bad decision making on a pretty large scale with the excuse of, "It's Alaska!!!" Folks feel that the rules simply can't apply because if they did, then the job wouldn't get done, and thus people make horrible decisions, and it gets people killed at a fairly high rate up there.
And that excuse is complete BS.
But make no mistake, it's the bad decision making, and not the terrain, weather, or any other factor, that leads to Alaska being dangerous.
If you take part 121 operating rules, stick to SOP, and do your job properly (by doing things like going around at minimums if you don't see the runway), then it's no more dangerous than any other part of the world.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Er. From my VFR-only been-here-just-a-few-months point of view, 400-600' seems to be a pretty common ceiling when it's wet.
Granted, I'm sure it won't rain much here in June, July or August.
-Fox
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Says the guy without a single hour up here.
Nark
Macho Superpilot
Often. That is how much time during the summer Juneau has weather below mins for the LDA.
Alaska's bread and butter is the RNP ability.
Once Delta has RNP, as noted above, there won't be an issue.
Most of the crashes in the last few years stem from pilots inability to say No. Whether it's to the boss, or to themselves.
It's not an enchanted land of mystery.
@jtrain609 don't make the mistake of comparing 135 and 121 evenly.
Alaska's bread and butter is the RNP ability.
Once Delta has RNP, as noted above, there won't be an issue.
Most of the crashes in the last few years stem from pilots inability to say No. Whether it's to the boss, or to themselves.
It's not an enchanted land of mystery.
@jtrain609 don't make the mistake of comparing 135 and 121 evenly.
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