Reporting a violation

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Monk said:
I filed a nasa form for all of them so they can't be touched!
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Whateva! I do what I want!

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:)
 
It would seem the majority of responses towards this guy have basically been, "Don't be a narc," conveying that it's acceptable for other pilots to violate rules and put other folks in tight spots, and that we should protect each other in order to allow all of us to violate rules and put others in tight spots, and if you don't like it, you should probably get the stuff you find at the beach out of your reproductive organs.

How this attitude has developed here is something I've never figured out. Internet machismo? General baggery? I couldn't say to tell you the truth, but in the end we are the ones that need to police our own ranks, and when we refuse to, we sacrifice our own integrity by looking the other way when those among us look like jackasses.
 
True enough. Theres also the other side of the coin, where we dont want to promote an atmosphere of Kurt Vonnegut. Delicate balance.
 
I am very much a believer in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and am willing to live and let live. I've seen some funky aviation stuff in the Southwest- such as the owner of a 210 who did not even have an N number. If you looked up POS you would see a picture of this 210. The owner even asked a mechanic if he could have the troublesome landing gear welded down and turn it into a 206. No way I would touch that airplane with a 10' pole and if the FAA ever saw the thing that would probably be torn between laughing and crying. But the guy was pretty much only endangering himself and never hurt others. I don't think the FAA ever found out about him.
The other side is when your pursuit of happiness interferes with the life and liberty of others. When you do this you have crossed a line. If the OP's description is correct then the King Air pilot(s) are endangering the lives of others as well as the liberty all of us enjoy as pilots. As I wrote earlier I think it's a matter of time before some rouge IMC pilot runs into an airliner (remember TCAS only works if both airplanes have transponders). If this ever does happen you will probably see congress get involved and some major changes in GA.
 
Blackhawk said:
I am very much a believer in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and am willing to live and let live. I've seen some funky aviation stuff in the Southwest- such as the owner of a 210 who did not even have an N number. If you looked up POS you would see a picture of this 210. The owner even asked a mechanic if he could have the troublesome landing gear welded down and turn it into a 206. No way I would touch that airplane with a 10' pole and if the FAA ever saw the thing that would probably be torn between laughing and crying. But the guy was pretty much only endangering himself and never hurt others. I don't think the FAA ever found out about him.
The other side is when your pursuit of happiness interferes with the life and liberty of others. When you do this you have crossed a line. If the OP's description is correct then the King Air pilot(s) are endangering the lives of others as well as the liberty all of us enjoy as pilots. As I wrote earlier I think it's a matter of time before some rouge IMC pilot runs into an airliner (remember TCAS only works if both airplanes have transponders). If this ever does happen you will probably see congress get involved and some major changes in GA aviation.
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Bam.
 
Sounds like you know this guy, since you know 'he' does it often. Why not pour a little sand in that empty swinging sack between your legs and talk to him about it in person as any actual man [modhat]Why not back up off of the personal shot and macho talk. It makes you look petty and does nothing to advance the debate, it merely is intended to insult and incite. [/modhat]would do, rather than tugging on the pants leg of Authority like I'm willing to bet you've done your entire life, you squirming litttle Informer. When we were kids, we had the good sense to just take kids like you out back and beat them. Now we have to pretend to share your pious little outrage at the Evuls of Others, and we're even expected to look up the phone number for your smug little Crusade. Not me.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Sounds like you know this guy, since you know 'he' does it often. Why not pour a little sand in that empty swinging sack between your legs and talk to him about it in person as any actual man would do, rather than tugging on the pants leg of Authority like I'm willing to bet you've done your entire life, you squirming litttle Informer. When we were kids, we had the good sense to just take kids like you out back and beat them. Now we have to pretend to share your pious little outrage at the Evuls of Others, and we're even expected to look up the phone number for your smug little Crusade. Not me.
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So it'll be okay when this King Air pilot plows into an airliner while operating IMC without a clearance? Should he maybe do something then, after the fact?
 
'Do something'? You mean like nut up and say 'I'm not happy with your behavior' to the guy in question? No, surely not, that's too much to ask of any self-righteous skirt-hiding Informer.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Sounds like you know this guy, since you know 'he' does it often. Why not pour a little sand in that empty swinging sack between your legs and talk to him about it in person as any actual man would do, rather than tugging on the pants leg of Authority like I'm willing to bet you've done your entire life, you squirming litttle Informer. When we were kids, we had the good sense to just take kids like you out back and beat them. Now we have to pretend to share your pious little outrage at the Evuls of Others, and we're even expected to look up the phone number for your smug little Crusade. Not me.
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I've got some bad news for you.

YOU are the problem.
 
I find it difficult to believe that TRACON controllers over a recorded frequency complained to you about illegal and unsafe activity and did not report it along the chain of command when it is most of the time an automatic DEAL if they do not report even mild pilot deviations and it is then found out in audits. It just stretches the bounds of believability in this atmosphere of intense CYA in controllers not to mention that co-opting controllers to help enforcement has been the philosophy at the FAA for a while now, whether the controllers like it or not.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I find it difficult to believe that TRACON controllers over a recorded frequency complained to you about illegal and unsafe activity and did not report it along the chain of command when it is most of the time an automatic DEAL if they do not report even mild pilot deviations and it is then found out in audits. It just stretches the bounds of believability in this atmosphere of intense CYA in controllers not to mention that co-opting controllers to help enforcement has been the philosophy at the FAA for a while now, whether the controllers like it or not.
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Shack. +1 and exactly what I mean by letting TRACON handle it.......in a matter of speaking, the FAA already "knows about it".
 
If I were unknowingly doing something dangerous or improper or if someone just knew of a better way, I would like to think that someone would man up and tell me of there opinion. I may not agree, but more information is always useful. This just seems like the right place to start.
 
Boris Badenov said:
'Do something'? You mean like nut up and say 'I'm not happy with your behavior' to the guy in question? No, surely not, that's too much to ask of any self-righteous skirt-hiding Informer.
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I'm sure if the guy really is doing something illegal\wrong, and has been for a long time, than nothing any other pilot says is going to stop him\her. I've dealt with it in the past. I had a pilot at a local airport get into "formation" flight with me (I quote it because he def did NOT have my approval), while I was doing a scenic flight for the flight school. The pilot in question didn't know I was in the airplane, nor did he know the airplane I was flying was a flight school airplane. He wasn't even monitoring the local frequency, or if he was, he wasn't responding to my calls to clear away from me. I had to play it off to the paying passengers that it was normal and that there is no danger. A couple days later I finally saw this pilot on the ramp, and pulled him aside, away from everyone else and told him that what he did was very dangerous, and he's lucky I watched him the whole time, because if I had just blindly turned to the right, I may have run right into him. He was very surprised when I told him I was a CFI, but then he quickly denied it all. I then said, well I saw your airplane\tail number. He denied it again. I closed with, "alright well if I were you than, I'd double check your locks, because someone has been flying your airplane and you're not aware of it". About a week later myself and a couple other instructors witnessed him hotdoggin it around the perimeter of the airport I taught at (untowered), at tree top levels doing steep turns and sharp climbs\descents, with people and students in the pattern.

Point of the story, I don't know the OP, but it's a bit ridiculous to call the guy out and say he's a "squirming little informer". If he legitimately has a reoccuring problem with this one pilot, and nobody is doing anything about it, than I wouldn't blame him one bit for taking action himself before this guy kills someone. People seem to constantly say that these pilots are only going to be killing themselves, how quickly we forget though that we also have a responsibility to those on the ground in homes\buildings below us.
 
Boris Badenov said:
'Do something'? You mean like nut up and say 'I'm not happy with your behavior' to the guy in question? No, surely not, that's too much to ask of any self-righteous skirt-hiding Informer.
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If you know the guy, sure, give it a shot. "You know, I'd really appreciate it if you stopped launching into IMC without a clearance. Would you mind stopping?"

I'd definately do that first. But do you think a guy who blatantly violates regs is the type of person who gives a crap what another pilot thinks? Talking tough about sacking up is great and all, but in the end it comes down to what's going to stop him before he hurts someone.
 
Mark815 said:
I'm sure if the guy really is doing something illegal\wrong, and has been for a long time, than nothing any other pilot says is going to stop him\her. I've dealt with it in the past. I had a pilot at a local airport get into "formation" flight with me (I quote it because he def did NOT have my approval), while I was doing a scenic flight for the flight school. The pilot in question didn't know I was in the airplane, nor did he know the airplane I was flying was a flight school airplane. He wasn't even monitoring the local frequency, or if he was, he wasn't responding to my calls to clear away from me. I had to play it off to the paying passengers that it was normal and that there is no danger. A couple days later I finally saw this pilot on the ramp, and pulled him aside, away from everyone else and told him that what he did was very dangerous, and he's lucky I watched him the whole time, because if I had just blindly turned to the right, I may have run right into him. He was very surprised when I told him I was a CFI, but then he quickly denied it all. I then said, well I saw your airplane\tail number. He denied it again. I closed with, "alright well if I were you than, I'd double check your locks, because someone has been flying your airplane and you're not aware of it". About a week later myself and a couple other instructors witnessed him hotdoggin it around the perimeter of the airport I taught at (untowered), at tree top levels doing steep turns and sharp climbs\descents, with people and students in the pattern.
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Perhaps he wasn't aware of you either in which case you should be grateful for not having a collision.

Point of the story, I don't know the OP, but it's a bit ridiculous to call the guy out and say he's a "squirming little informer". If he legitimately has a reoccuring problem with this one pilot, and nobody is doing anything about it, than I wouldn't blame him one bit for taking action himself before this guy kills someone. People seem to constantly say that these pilots are only going to be killing themselves, how quickly we forget though that we also have a responsibility to those on the ground in homes\buildings below us.
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What does hotdogging it mean? If it means low level turns and maneuvers close to an airport then you should get used to it, that is essentially the modus operandi of all ag flying.
Or avoid all airfields where ag pilots operate out of...stay in class C I guess?
 
jtrain609 said:
It would seem the majority of responses towards this guy have basically been, "Don't be a narc," conveying that it's acceptable for other pilots to violate rules and put other folks in tight spots, and that we should protect each other in order to allow all of us to violate rules and put others in tight spots, and if you don't like it, you should probably get the stuff you find at the beach out of your reproductive organs.

How this attitude has developed here is something I've never figured out. Internet machismo? General baggery? I couldn't say to tell you the truth, but in the end we are the ones that need to police our own ranks, and when we refuse to, we sacrifice our own integrity by looking the other way when those among us look like jackasses.
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Asking "How do I report another pilot to the FAA?" is like asking "How do I report someone as a pedophile". You need to be 100% SURE about what you are saying before you pull the trigger. I wouldn't wish a FAA enforcement action on my worst enemy.

That said, if I was sure a pilot was putting myself and others in jepordy, I would exaust every option before I called the feds.
 
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