Yay Jumpseat Wars!

I routinely do <5 min, 1 engine turns and if I have a jumpseater listed I will run inside to see if they are waiting in the FBO. Different situation but it's taking the extra effort and it should be incorporated into the 20 minutes that you have.

I'd have no problem either, if we had a jumpseat list. Again, we are first battling software that UALPA implemented, and gate agents that do not understand proper priority.
 
Sounds like more of a Crew Support / Scheduling software issue than individual pilot groups and their associated JS Committees.

Sounds like it. Personally, I think the letter should have went to whomever handles the IT automation.

Otherwise, holding UAL's jumpseat access hostage as if UAL's IT department, or management honestly gives a poop if 6000 pilots write angrily worded letters about the automation.

"We'll study it" will probably be the response from the powers-that-be at UAL. People start getting denied jumpseats, operational reliability on both sides goes thru the crapper and UAL pulls the "Delta" and kills the feed agreement because of performance issues.
 
Hopefully your jumpseat coordinators will be spreading this message in the near future as this is where I've gotten this idea of checking the gate area.

I routinely do <5 min, 1 engine turns and if I have a jumpseater listed I will run inside to see if they are waiting in the FBO. Different situation but it's taking the extra effort and it should be incorporated into the 20 minutes that you have.

You do realize at some airports it is a 5 to 10 minute walk to the gate...

Also, the gates are cattle herds with multiple departures in one big common room or pen (300-400 people). So, it is near impossible to spot jumpseaters, especially those not in the monkey suit.

In addition, many gate agents have been lying and reporting that only jumpseater is the United guy.

This has been a subtle, yet blatant attempt by UALs MEC to gain priority of UAX's jumpseats.

In my opinion this really isn't a war, just a notification of pending termination of jumpseat agreements (since they weren't being reciprocated anyways).
 
Sounds like it. Personally, I think the letter should have went to whomever handles the IT automation.

Otherwise, holding UAL's jumpseat access hostage as if UAL's IT department, or management honestly gives a poop if 6000 pilots write angrily worded letters about the automation.

"We'll study it" will probably be the response from the powers-that-be at UAL. People start getting denied jumpseats, operational reliability on both sides goes thru the crapper and UAL pulls the "Delta" and kills the feed agreement because of performance issues.
IT is not the problem, UALs MEC is... They had it changed originally and once caught, they are refusing to change it back!!!
 
Sounds like it. Personally, I think the letter should have went to whomever handles the IT automation.

Otherwise, holding UAL's jumpseat access hostage as if UAL's IT department, or management honestly gives a poop if 6000 pilots write angrily worded letters about the automation.

"We'll study it" will probably be the response from the powers-that-be at UAL. People start getting denied jumpseats, operational reliability on both sides goes thru the crapper and UAL pulls the "Delta" and kills the feed agreement because of performance issues.

A certain UA capt had a funny thing to say about all this!
 
A certain UA capt had a funny thing to say about all this!
I had a UAL jumpseater on tonight, and I had a few minutes to speak with her. She said that what has been happening is not right and that she would call the MEC tomorrow . Max PM me please. I'm interested in all perspectives.
 
Why do most United pilots have that expression on their face like somebody just pooped on their mustache? I've always wanted to know?
 
Otherwise, holding UAL's jumpseat access hostage as if UAL's IT department, or management honestly gives a poop if 6000 pilots write angrily worded letters about the automation.

True, but UAL management may care when several hundred of their pilots call in sick or invoke their commuter clause because they couldn't get to work.

*IF* every regional captain who's jumpseat committee signed that letter actually denied UAL guys the jumpseat I would bet within 5 days the computer system would be fixed.
 
Hopefully your jumpseat coordinators will be spreading this message in the near future as this is where I've gotten this idea of checking the gate area.

I routinely do <5 min, 1 engine turns and if I have a jumpseater listed I will run inside to see if they are waiting in the FBO. Different situation but it's taking the extra effort and it should be incorporated into the 20 minutes that you have.

See, that would work....if we actually got a JS list prior to the flight. As it is, we don't even see a list of who needs wheelchairs and who the UMs are until the door is about to close for the flight to depart much less get a heads up on a JSer.

One of the advantages of the freight world is the smaller amount of BS you have to deal with. It would take longer than 5 minutes just to get half the passengers off the plane and into the jetbridge. No way we could do a turn in 5 minutes.
 
True, but UAL management may care when several hundred of their pilots call in sick or invoke their commuter clause because they couldn't get to work.

*IF* every regional captain who's jumpseat committee signed that letter actually denied UAL guys the jumpseat I would bet within 5 days the computer system would be fixed.

In an effort to not make it appear like an illegal job action. . .perhaps that is exactly what needs to happen then. All the UAX MEC's need to somehow communicate with each other and set a short time period (3-5 days) to see the system actually work and fail. . .then. . .pander to UAL management / IT to fix the damn software so that big daddy UAL can have pilots actually flying for a living.

But of course, wouldn't want that to be viewed as an illegal job action. . .as I'm sure some annoying management type somewhere in the system would think up.
 
I still suggest letting the MEC's work the situation out rather than going vigilante. I've got two words for everyone:

"Joe Kolshak"

Joe's the new VP of flight operations and he does not care.

Flights start cancelling, people calling in sick, he does not care and is more interested with giving you unpaid time off to look tough and strict to the board of directors which hired him.

If 50 billion people write Joe about rectifying anything that involves pilots, you might as well be speaking in Swahili to a marmot because it's not going to have any effect.

Let the MEC's handle this because that's where the power is.
 
I still suggest letting the MEC's work the situation out rather than going vigilante. I've got two words for everyone:

"Joe Kolshak"

Joe's the new VP of flight operations and he does not care.

Flights start cancelling, people calling in sick, he does not care and is more interested with giving you unpaid time off to look tough and strict to the board of directors which hired him.

If 50 billion people write Joe about rectifying anything that involves pilots, you might as well be speaking in Swahili to a marmot because it's not going to have any effect.

Let the MEC's handle this because that's where the power is.
agreed . . . by the way I like the swahili to a marmot line . . .
the problem here is that UALPA MEC has refused to do anything. This action, led by each UAX carrier's MEC along w/ our JS coordinator is designed to get UAL pilots to motivate their MEC to action.
 
From what I've seen, they've already tried that. the UAL MEC was the one that started this all by making a grab for priority on ANY jumpseat that has a United Logo painted on the tail, even if it has the words "Express" after it. TSA played ball and as such were rewarded with secondary priority after UAL guys on mainline metal. All the other UAX companies were either never asked or told UAL to go pound sand.

So how does a group of MECs negotiate with UALPA when they already have exactly what they want?
 
I still suggest letting the MEC's work the situation out rather than going vigilante.

I just couldn't help but come out of "lurker" status to post on this thread. Doug, you're absolutely 100% correct. The actions of the regional jumpseat committees on this are abhorrent. Inciting a "jumpseat war" over this issue is the most counterproductive thing that they could possibly do. Has anyone asked Captain Rice at National to intervene with his own UAL MEC? Has anyone requested the assistance of the National Jumpseat Committee Chairman? Even if these avenues are tried and end up failing, a threatening letter is still the worst possible course of action. If you want to hand out letters to your UAL jumpseaters, then make it an informational letter only. Remove all references that could even remotely be interpreted as threats, intimidation, ultimatums, etc...

Word to the wise on this: I talked with a buddy that's in flight ops management at one of UAL's largest Express carriers about this letter. Flight ops management is not happy. If you start denying UAL pilots and incite a jumpseat war, your own management will not even be on your side. Is this really how you want to handle this problem? Think carefully.

Now, back to my cave. ;)
 
This is a classic case of blame it on the victim... The UAL MEC is the cause of this with their grab for what is not theirs!!! UAX pilots have tried every they could think of to work with UA's MEC, only to be rebuffed. How many times to you get kicked in the balls before you say, "Adios"? The MEC is acting more like their hated management than advocate for pilots...
 
And I'm sure somewhere down the road some rogue group of pilots will blame ALPA national for their own problems, which really are not their own but some damn IT issue at big daddy UAL. . .and as such. . .will seek to decertify ALPA as their Bargaining Agent.

:sarcasm:
 
Yeah, an IT problem... Hmmm... UALs MEC asked for and was granted by UAL management for higher priority in UAX jumpseats... UAL management won't restore seniority/priority jumpseats without the MEC's blessing which they are not giving nor even will discuss it.
 
Then if it's that simple. . .hopefully all of the UAX companies don't have spineless Captains.

These Captains with a spine will then take a pro-active approach to making sure their guys/gals have priority, and then will fall back and allow whoever, and how many of the rest onboard.

Simple as that. . .call it a jumpseat war, whatever. . .couldn't care less really. . .but I hope the UAX Captains who get to deal with this ######## are able to deal with it in a humble manner and enough guys are able to get to work.
 
yup, then kiss your regional routes goodbye.....the regionals are stuck in between a rock and a hard place on this one, definitely!

you'd expect fair play but honestly, UAL has the upper hand because they are the ones that feed you and they are the ones that can take that food away if you don't play nice.

so it's a nice idea, to be able to fight fire with fire, but in all reality, what's it going to get you when you bite the hand that feeds?
 
yup, then kiss your regional routes goodbye.....the regionals are stuck in between a rock and a hard place on this one, definitely!

you'd expect fair play but honestly, UAL has the upper hand because they are the ones that feed you and they are the ones that can take that food away if you don't play nice.

so it's a nice idea, to be able to fight fire with fire, but in all reality, what's it going to get you when you bite the hand that feeds?


Kind of ironic that some regionals are in a better cash position than UAL...
 
Back
Top