XJT AIP

cencal83406 said:
Since when did an a bankrupt carrier putting a gun to its' pilots heads get to be put in the same derogatory sentence as "start-up era" GoJet, created to get around a scope clause.

It's quite ridiculous. Your union signed off on our deal as well, by virtue of Lee Moak's signature. The collective elected him to be President.
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Because BK or not, the correct answer to our concessionary TA was still no, which about 75% of the pilot group failed to say.
 
The mentality of some of the senior voters is the inferior contracts of their competitors is forcing them to vote yes on a TA against their will... which is stupid.
 
Seggy said:
XJT and ASA should have had a contract years ago.
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Well, thanks to about seven guys behind closed doors we probably never will.

This place is toast in 5-7 years IMO whether the TA goes through or not. The market simply will not support 3 large pilot groups in the future.
 
mastermags said:
Any XJT pilot that votes 'yes' on this has no right to bitch about Pinnacle or Gojets ever again.
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To be clear I'm voting No. But this is not even close to a comparison. I just wish personal reasons aside, pinnacle, PSA, or Go jet guys would stop pretending they didn't screw everyone else. You took concessions to "put food on the table" fine. You did what you had to do. But don't pretend that you didn't lower the bar. Just call it for what it is. Stop justifying it.
 
Seggy said:
Who are these guys you speak about? Was there an attempted recall against them if they sucked so much?
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I'm not so sure that would be justified... Can't say it hasn't been on the back of my mind but I think a lot of the blame should go on the pilot group because 90% of them were too lazy to send a flippin email. If we recalled our MEC who would take over for them? I doubt it'd be much better. Why the hell they put this to the pilots with the scope section as is I will never understand, but I don't know what other options they might have had.
 
I would maybe they put it out knowing it was terrible, expecting it to get voted down by a large margin to give them some leverage at the negotiating table. Easier to say "hey we took your gracious offer to the pilot group and they collectively said no. So here's what we think people will be happy with and will be best for the company."

Or I'm way off base. But that's my best guess on this one.

Hoping for the best for you guys though. Everyone I've met has been nothing but nice and professional, and i always appreciate the extra help in getting me home to Tulsa.
 
juxtapilot said:
I'm not so sure that would be justified... Can't say it hasn't been on the back of my mind but I think a lot of the blame should go on the pilot group because 90% of them were too lazy to send a flippin email. If we recalled our MEC who would take over for them? I doubt it'd be much better. Why the hell they put this to the pilots with the scope section as is I will never understand, but I don't know what other options they might have had.
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You have good points, but in my opinion, it is justified. Look how many MEC Chairs you guys have had in the last few years and the politics played with that position. Your MEC looked like fools at the last ALPA BOD with the politics they played in recalling the MEC Chair AND what they did in getting an EVP from XJT. Really poor leadership from the reps. Also, part about being a union leader is understanding where there is a deal to be made. If your leadership was able to see that a deal was attainable a few years ago if the contract included PBS, they should have brought that deal to the table, rather than the crappy deal you guys are facing now.
 
DenverPilot8 said:
To be clear I'm voting No. But this is not even close to a comparison. I just wish personal reasons aside, pinnacle, PSA, or Go jet guys would stop pretending they didn't screw everyone else. You took concessions to "put food on the table" fine. You did what you had to do. But don't pretend that you didn't lower the bar. Just call it for what it is. Stop justifying it.
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TIME OUT.

Do you understand that the Endeavor Pilots were in bankruptcy and if they DIDN'T vote that deal in a WORSE deal could have been given to them by the court?

A lot of ASA and XJT guys need to understand that before they bitch out the Endeavor Pilots.
 
Seggy said:
TIME OUT.

Do you understand that the Endeavor Pilots were in bankruptcy and if they DIDN'T vote that deal in a WORSE deal could have been given to them by the court?

A lot of ASA and XJT guys need to understand that before they bitch out the Endeavor Pilots.
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Sorry Seggy, I'm not in that crowd but you should know that people are going to do that. Just like you keep reiterating that this should've been done years ago.
 
Anyone who thinks a NO vote at Endeavor would've helped the current round of negotiations is delusional. As @cencal83406 mentioned the company would have gotten their 1113c and the airline would have continued on for at least another 2 years before being wound down which easily would've been enough time for DL to play the game they're currently playing.

Also, being in Ch. 11 pretty much excludes 9E from the PSA and GoJet club.
 
ross9238 said:
The problem is that your fact doesn't change anything. It is what it is and maybe we are also tired of hearing that just like you are of others saying that about Endeavor.
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Maybe others are tired of hearing the XJT/ASA guys bitching Endeavor out when their circumstances were ultimately out of their control no matter how they voted.
 
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