XJT AIP
- Thread starter ComplexHiAv8r
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CRJDriver
Well-Known Member
It's about time they send off the fear grenades.
They want to cut costs? Start at the top and get rid of the useless people in management, followed by the ones with special titles and jobs that we don't need or someone else can handle. Get rid of all the useless people and morons that cost this company more than the pilot group, starting with the idiots from the SureJet fiasco and other morons in corporate communications that create colorful brochures and flyers that nobody reads. And don't even get me started with the folks in scheduling, dispatch, etc.
Either way.... FUPM and No!
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jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
And it's out in the open.
http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?52610-Brad-s-Update
http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?52610-Brad-s-Update
juxtapilot
Snowflake
It's not like anybody wasn't expecting this message... No surprise here... Move along. XJT is shutting down in less than 5 years whether you vote yes or no...
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Oh come on Joe. There is an unfortunate downward trend occurring with regional contracts. Is it right? No.
As this is occurring (remember I got involved to bring a company up a higher standard, not down), what can be done to get as many pilots out of the regionals to a (hopefully) more stable airline?
juxtapilot
Snowflake
If they can negotiate the RJ contracts down to nothing, they'll be able to do the same thing to the mainline contracts over the next 20 years. No where to go but down.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
The issue the regionals are facing now are thanks to Delta Management and them putting Pinnacle into Bankruptcy. You are absolutely right that it can also occur to mainline as well. Hopefully, the bankruptcy laws can be changed to prevent this from happening again.
With that said, if you guys vote no to 'hold the line', fair enough. However, I wouldn't be so antsy to say management is 'bluffing'. I don't think they are, and you guys are in a horrible position.
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Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Well, I plan on voting no to attempt to stop the trend. Even if over time it does cost me this job.
But correct me if I'm wrong, in another thread you were basically saying this was necessary and that a lot of the more senior people probably should take a cut as motivation to move on.
My issue with that is while there are a lot of guys who were just too lazy to move on, most of the stagnation in this sector of the industry wasn't anybody's choice. Therein lies my frustration with your point of view on this entire industry. I don't doubt that you worked hard to get ahead, and I am happy for you that you moved on. I don't wish getting stuck at a regional on anybody. We all make choices, yours certainly worked out better than most of ours. But lately your interest in this segment of the industry seems to have taken more of a high school girl/soap opera turn. Some of us have to live with this crap.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
I don't think they're bluffing at all. Like I've said, Yes or No, XJT is gone in 5 years. Passing the current TA might delay the inevitable, but not by much. But like the Emu's saying, we're dealing with this crap every day. It's disgusting to see how much money this company is wasting, and it has nothing to do with the pilots. They don't know how to run an airline, and I honestly believe that even with the lowest of the low-ball TA's, our management is incapable of making XJT profitable.
Someone's got to hold the line, otherwise it WILL happen at mainline eventually.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I can't blame you for that. I am not saying my vote would be different if I was in your shoes.
Well, let me say, I think your 'heartburn' with me may be because I didn't explain my position well enough.
ALPA sets up their contract to be collectively bargained. That is they try to keep airlines with similar business models closely bunched in terms of compensation/work rules. You don't want extremes either way. This collective bargaining, for the most part, has worked well. However, when the bar is lowered the collectively bargrained contracts see a downward trend. You and XJT had a chance to raise the bar with your joint negotiations and get a deal during an upward trend period after Pinnacle signed their joint contract. However, a temper tantrum (not your fault), over PBS and a few other silly things prevented that. When Delta Management said, 'Oh we can reset the regional industry and force Pinnacle into bankruptcy, they knew they could bring the regional contracts down. Yes, the Pinnacle guys did vote the contract in, however, Delta could have just had the bankruptcy court force an agreement in place that could have been FAR worse than they currently have.
That is basically how collective bargaining works. Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
With all that said, to answer your question, no it is NOT necessary that your pilot group (or any others) vote in a contract like you are facing in. It will probably feel real good voting NO on it. Once again, can't blame anyone for that. However, just know that the bar HAS been lowered and management is going to try everything they can do in their power to lower that bar.
Very true.
But I have some 'heartburn' with this. A guy like you, other FOs, and other Captains who want to get out and who have used that stagnation as a time to 'network', I do think you will be able to move on sooner than you think over the next few years. I have no sympathy though for the guys who made their own bed, doing stupid things, not staying 'hungry' on what should have been the 'ultimate goal'. For years guys have been saying on here to 'stay hungry', 'don't get comfortable', 'you are just an outsourced worker', etc. Yes, I do understand life gets in the way, I do understand there are a bunch of senior guys who are trying desperately to get out, yes, I do understand the frustration with your stagnation, but I really believe guys that want to get out will be able to. Those who decided to stay long ago as they were making $100,000 flying a 50 seat jet with weekends off, I am not going to be sorry for them if they take a cut. Call me cruel or whatever, but that is the bed they made. Should they make $100,000, absolutely, however, that is not the reality of what is happening NOW in the industry.
I hope I made myself clearer and offered to take the 'heartburn' away. The situation the regional guys are in now SUCKS. However, I am not going to have a pity party for the TRUE regional lifers. Guys like you, Captains who have been stuck and want to get out, guys who are starting now that are hungry to get out, yes, it could have been very easy for me to get in that same position and I hope that you guys get out and I get to fly with you. I am very fortunate to be were I am at. If I listened to others advice away from this website, I probably would be a seven year FO at XJT.
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Seggy
Well-Known Member
I would have liked your post until you said......
It has already happened at mainline after 9/11. Can it happen again? Yes, absolutely!
ross9238
Well-Known Member
Are they bluffing? Maybe, maybe not. I do seem to remember some similar scare tactics in 2007 as well. Granted the industry has changed since then. I doubt that they are being completely "honest" with us out of the goodness of their heart. Skywest will never show its full hand. If the fleet plan is to shrink without renewing any contract, well so be it. Leading by example is an unheard of concept among corporate America. It will be better to stand together and send a message with a resounding "NO" to INC and to its puppets. Have fun with that golden parachute Brad!
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Crap... you're actually right on this... Guess I just hope for a better outcome next time around.
So, upon further review, if you look at our current contract in the definitions is also says block out based on aircraft movement. So, really nothing will change there. That technology doesn't exists yet and the company wants us out via brake release for on-time performance.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
It would take longer than 5 years but I can see the first steps unfolding in the TA's scope agreement. Seems like a way to get the planes and pilots on property over at Skywest without the union following.
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Trip7
Well-Known Member
You will be LONG gone from XJT by the time anything happens that would cost you your job, whether or not the TA is ratified. We've been at XJT for 6 years, but taking away the 5 year stagnation of Age 65, we've really only had a year of true movement. The hiring wave has finally started and when it really gets rolling, its going to be unprecedented. United is already hiring like crazy, and they are about to make an order to establish a DL 717 type Small Narrowbody Fleet at Mainline in order to reduce the 50 seaters and add 76 seaters. They must do this to compete with Delta. That will further increase the flow of pilots to mainline. The new American will follow suit.
There is no need to spend energy and time discussing this TA. The future is too bright career wise. Continue to prepare yourselves for a job interview.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
The technology definitely exists. Wheel spin up is all recorded on the FDR. All it takes is a couple of clicks on the ACARS to change pay parameters.
Be that as it may or may not be, it is the exact same language written in our current contract. If wheel spin-up is what they want to use then they could have by this point.