Will you like it forever?

[genot]

Well there just seems to be such a split between controllers and CTI versus OTS it seemed like it was something of a new idea rather then a tried and true option that has worked in the past. I would not have thought we would be looked down upon if this wasnt a new option.

I never looked into it but just figured that prior they were either in school for it or prior military

What happened is when OTS wasn't an option people were paying tens of thousands for the CTI degree then all of a sudden, oh hey we'll take whoever. The feeling of being looked down upon is SOME CTIs being miffed about basically wasting all that money (in some cases 100,000 in student loans).

 

[hudson26]

What happened is when OTS wasn't an option people were paying tens of thousands for the CTI degree then all of a sudden, oh hey we'll take whoever. The feeling of being looked down upon is SOME CTIs being miffed about basically wasting all that money (in some cases 100,000 in student loans).

Yeah I would be pissed if I spent all that money for a degree that you can go and learn the same thing in basics for free. I wouldn't take it out on anyone though... that money could have been spent on a degree in something else...

 

[WoH]

Personally I don't consider an office job moving up in the world, but that's just me. If that's where you want to be in life then go for it.

What bothers me is that you could do that in any industry. Any! I speak for all the people who's chances of getting into this career are slipping away. Passionate, dedicated people who would love to have your spot. People who would really deliver on the investment made in them, but might not ever get a chance because your (and theoretically every) class is full of people with an agenda other that doing the job they were hired to do...

...you do remember the job you were hired to do? right?

 

[queeno]

Let me address a few of your comments: You said, "most of the OTS people on here have a genuine desire to do this job and work airplanes", I can tell you of quite a few ppl in my class in which that's not the case, some ppl's parents coaxed them into being controllers, some just who applied b/c they didn't have a job and got accepted and took the offer, 1 dude has a graduate degree and can't get a job in his field, and the list goes. I neved "demanded" anyone do anything, correct me if I'm wrong, but we can't train ourselves that's where OJT's come in to teach us the skills to become a controller. "Why should any of us waste our time on training you just so you can skip out and never work planes again?" Well, some people (like myself) strive to go farther and take their career to the next level and not be limited by a glass ceiling. Yes, that is someone else's time and like I said before I will work traffic, to get me where I want to be (otherwise I wouldn't have taken the job). "As I said before, don't waste our time." Too late, and what's it to you? "As for your attitude about we WILL (which means optional and not a requirement for the application of a procedure in the .65)" This coming verbatim from 7110.65 1-2-1 " d. Will means futurity, not a requirement for the application of a procedure. I don't see the word "optional" in that sentance, but I do see futurity meaning "a future condition or event". Last but not least I never did "brag" about the academy just stated the facts.

keep pedaling,faster faster faster.any one can spend 20 years pushing papers,its the special ones that spend 20 working traffic.sorry nubee you cant unring the bell.

 

[TBarry253]

What happened is when OTS wasn't an option people were paying tens of thousands for the CTI degree then all of a sudden, oh hey we'll take whoever. The feeling of being looked down upon is SOME CTIs being miffed about basically wasting all that money (in some cases 100,000 in student loans).

Yeah exactly - I was all set to attend ERAU in the fall of 2006 but last minute decided I didn't want to shell out that kind of money or get stuck paying off loans for several years.

Then a year or so later, a few schools closer to me (and much cheaper!) were approved as CTI and just as I started to look into them I saw the OTS announcement!

 

[boondr]

The "attitude" you and others may think I have is not one of "I am entitled", but it's confidence. I don't walk around with my chest out thinking I am the "stuff", I know everything, and no one can tell me anything, etc. With that type of attitue I might as well pack my bags and bounce right now b/c not only would it get me no where in ATC, but it also wouldn't get me anywhere in life nor would it have gotten me where I am and where I have come from. I'm humble, considerate, appreciative, open to other ppl's opinions (especially on here) and beliefs, and the list goes on. Fact and point, I'm no fool, if you think I'm gonna go to my facility and act like the Big Man on Campus, telling people all my goals and business, that's silly. I'm going to follow what has been posted on this site about how to get certified and when I do take it from there. Also, "they" don't have the "penultimate" anything, God does, but I'm not going to go into that on here. Last but not least I'm not going to tell anyone, "I am their bitch, until the day I have a certificate that says I am not their bitch, and I am content with that". I don't use that type on language and will not degrade myself like that.

You may not think you have an attitude but your posts are dripping with a condescending holier than thou backdrop. You act as if working traffic is beneath you and that controllers who work their 25-30 years on the floors are settling for being mediocre. Whether you think so or not that WILL be noticed by the people who train you.

And good luck "moving up" when all those jobs behind the desks are being taken by people who can no longer work the floors due to age or medical issues and who have a lot more seniority than you do. If you wanted a human resources job you should have taken a human resources job because being a controller(if you make it) for 2-3 years will not help in the slightest bit to get you that job.

Queeno and HD may come off as a bit harsh but they have to put their tickets on the line to train people everyday and the last thing they want to do is waste their time on someone who is just trying to use them as a stepping stone to some percieved "higher" calling.

 

[ATC RET 2003]

"Gonna" is not in the 7110. It means that something is assured. Someone at Jax Center is gonna be assigned to train mallen14298. If mallen14298 goes into ZJX and says to that someone the same things that he has written here, the do-do is gonna hit the fan. That WILL happen.

 

[HiDef]

"As I said before, don't waste our time." Too late, and what's it to you? "As for your attitude about we WILL (which means optional and not a requirement for the application of a procedure in the .65)" This coming verbatim from 7110.65 1-2-1 " d. Will means futurity, not a requirement for the application of a procedure. I don't see the word "optional" in that sentance, but I do see futurity meaning "a future condition or event". Last but not least I never did "brag" about the academy just stated the facts.

Whats it to me? I work for the FAA. Nobody wants to put any effort into something that they won't see some sort of return on, correct? Why do we invest in TSP and mutual funds? Because we get something in return for investing.

Additionally, nobody WANTS a FLM or Manager that has 3-5 years of ATC experience. We need somebody who has experience and knowledge, but mainly experience. And as you know, you can only gain experience through years and years of practice.

And you're right. Optional is not in the definition however, "not a requirement" is...

Lastly I wanted to address this statement: "At the same time, don't listen to those naysayers who deride you because you are interestesd in working something more than an entry level job for the next 25 years."

I hardly think being a line controller is an entry level job. It's not really the same as being a bagger at the store or a pizza delivery guy at the local Domino's.

HD

 

[scongdon]

Heh, I'm in awe seeing how this thread exploded. On one hand, it gives me hope that some of the possible "wash-outs" (a tag I pray to God I'll never come close to) don't know the difference between "confidence" and "arrogance," but on the other, it worries me that the trainers might have a pre-conceived notion about incoming OTS hires. *Possibly, rightfully so.*

I don't understand how someone can look at this position as a stepping stone for anything... it's a career. I hope the next major step in my employment history is thirty years from now, eating cereal in my underwear at 10:30 AM while watching cartoons.

 

[teetee]

wow Mallen...you really know how to bring out all the big wigs that like to stay oh so quiet!

Queeno - long time no see...or am I just reading the wrong threads?

My husband is in training right now. He does have a couple in the class that are looking to "move up". He also thinks those are the ones that aren't putting the most into training and will most likely wash out in the facility due to controlling not being their passion!

For right now my husband is listening, learning and studying. He is trying his hardest to get as much information as possible so that when he goes to his center in 5 weeks he will be prepared to learn more information. He doesn't want to be in the statistic. He is pretty sure he has what it takes to make it as a controller as far as learning but he also knows he has to learn all the information FIRST. There is a lot of training and a LOT of learning. If you are not in this for the love of controlling traffic, then I can't see those people making it all the way to CPC. It is a LOT of work, a LOT of training to just move on "up" to a desk job.

My husband did start this process cause his dad's friend (who is a controller, has been for 20 years) thought my husband would be good at it. My husband has continued this process because he wants to. He knows it is something he would love and something he could be good at over time!

 

[ineedatc]

Heh, I'm in awe seeing how this thread exploded. On one hand, it gives me hope that some of the possible "wash-outs" (a tag I pray to God I'll never come close to) don't know the difference between "confidence" and "arrogance," but on the other, it worries me that the trainers might have a pre-conceived notion about incoming OTS hires. *Possibly, rightfully so.*

I don't understand how someone can look at this position as a stepping stone for anything... it's a career. I hope the next major step in my employment history is thirty years from now, eating cereal in my underwear at 10:30 AM while watching cartoons.

I agree and that is what hurts the most. People who do not want to do the job and are -- as it has already been said -- looking for the door. I actually wanted to do this as a kid. And to think that I would possibly be overlooked over these people who think the grass is greener? Boy, will they be wrong once they get where they think they want to go. Trust me. I am living that truth right now.

 

[BigDanC]

I have to be honest with ya'll - I applied to this career on a whim because where I was sucked and the pay looked great. I saw it through because that's the type of person I am.

Then I stepped foot in BWI tower to get a feel for what the career would be like. I knew at that second I wanted to push tin for the rest of my life.

I'm just baffled at how some of you guys can talk about being management before completing OKC. Right now I'm just scared less that something crazy will happen between now and my class date or that I'll wash out at my facility.

And if I get to the point where it's an option - the only way I'll ever take a management job is if I'm so fed up with the managers I work with that I can't stand it anymore.

Seriously - management sucks. I want to protect people and tell pilots where to put their planes.

 

[BoomerSooner77]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say these guys have never been in management in a Union environment.

That is a hell I do not want to subject myself to ever again! You don't even get to manage, the employee union tells you what you're going to do... it sux ass.

 

[scongdon]

I have to be honest with ya'll - I applied to this career on a whim because where I was sucked and the pay looked great. I saw it through because that's the type of person I am.

Then I stepped foot in BWI tower to get a feel for what the career would be like. I knew at that second I wanted to push tin for the rest of my life.

I'm just baffled at how some of you guys can talk about being management before completing OKC. Right now I'm just scared less that something crazy will happen between now and my class date or that I'll wash out at my facility.

And if I get to the point where it's an option - the only way I'll ever take a management job is if I'm so fed up with the managers I work with that I can't stand it anymore.

Seriously - management sucks. I want to protect people and tell pilots where to put their planes.

I didn't want to admit it, but those are my two biggest fears right after World War 3 and spiders. I like to put on the "indestructable" act, but people DO wash out. :/

 

[teetee]

One in my husband's class (2 weeks from final PV) quit today. 2 people at the facility/center he is going to washed out last week. My husband says it is humbling hear of people that did good in OKC fail in the facility!

 

[Alpha Lima]

I'v been doing it for 4 years now and still walk out of the IFR room thinking 'Oh my god THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN"

 

[BigDanC]

I didn't want to admit it, but those are my two biggest fears right after World War 3 and spiders. I like to put on the "indestructable" act, but people DO wash out. :/

My greatest irrational fear is an eruption of the super caldera in Yellowstone national park. They had a 4.5 today!

 

[scongdon]

My greatest irrational fear is an eruption of the super caldera in Yellowstone national park. They had a 4.5 today!

Spiders and WW3 aren't "irrational" fears. Now, my fear that if I drop an ice cube into a glass too hard, a piece might break lose, I'll swallow it, and it'll slice and dice my intestines, that's a little irrational.

But I just put ice cubes in gently. What's the big deal?

(Waits for a letter requesting an MMPI re-evaluation)

 

[BigDanC]

Spiders and WW3 aren't "irrational" fears. Now, my fear that if I drop an ice cube into a glass too hard, a piece might break lose, I'll swallow it, and it'll slice and dice my intestines, that's a little irrational.

Wow, I'd never thought of that.

...

Does anyone know how much tossing force it would require to break a glass with an ice cube?

 

[WoH]

I broke a glass with a clod of ice once. It was quite a thick glass. It was the same amount of force that you might use to break a chunk of ice against, say, the side of the freezer.