Will you like it forever?

[ATC RET 2003]

All opinions aside I don't understand how you couldn't be CPC for any less than 5 years before going into management.

It would be nice if something like that were required.

How would you even know HOW to manage or who or what before you even walk on your own two feet there?

From what I saw and what I continue to hear, knowing how to manage isn't regarded as a necessity.

There were many good managers I met along the way. They were never able to outnumber the not-so-good ones, though.

 

[queeno]

We joke around with those "dreams" in class, but they do contain some potential for coming true (we hope) LOL, it's really like an inside joke among the study group, but moving forward; As for myself, I can't speak for the others, I like the office enviornment, and don't want to deal with the "stress" that i've heard that is associated with working traffic BUT!!! If "pushing paper instead of planes" means I can't retire @ 47 as planned which is (24yrs and 344 days away), then I'll work traffic, but I do want to move up to mgt position ASAP and as high as I possibly can (which I've learned on here not to tell a soul @ my facility b/c of the potential consequences). If I don't get into mgt, then i'll work the traffic, retire in the yrs and days mentioned above as planned and teach college chemistry and put my degree to use. Simple

with you attitide youll never make it 25 years, iam glad i will not be around to see you traffic dodgers.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

Every job becomes routine and boring if you do it long enough.

It never did get that way for me.

Well then you're the exception, not the rule. Or maybe we're just getting hung up on symantics and 'routine and boring' isn't the best way to put it. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that in most career fields, if you do the job long enough, you'll get tired of doing it and will decide that its time to stop. .

Case in point:

I found that 25.5 years of it was exactly enough for me. It was an awesome career and I have enjoyed NOT doing it just about as much.

Hugh Hefner has been surrounding himself with hot young girls for the better part of a lifetime. And while he apparently still has sex with a few of them every night, he also apparently takes viagra like they were flintstones chewables. Moral of the story: Being Hugh Hefner for a living is not the worst way imaginable to spend your life. But even still when your job is having sex with hot young girls, then having sex with hot young girls gets to be a little bit like work after a while.

 

[indyserpico10]

Well then you're the exception, not the rule. Or maybe we're just getting hung up on symantics and 'routine and boring' isn't the best way to put it. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that in most career fields, if you do the job long enough, you'll get tired of doing it and will decide that its time to stop. .

Case in point:



Hugh Hefner has been surrounding himself with hot young girls for the better part of a lifetime. And while he apparently still has sex with a few of them every night, he also apparently takes viagra like they were flintstones chewables. Moral of the story: Being Hugh Hefner for a living is not the worst way imaginable to spend your life. But even still when your job is having sex with hot young girls, then having sex with hot young girls gets to be a little bit like work after a while.

:laff::laff::laff::yup:

 

[mallen14298]

with you attitide youll never make it 25 years, iam glad i will not be around to see you traffic dodgers.

That's your opinion, and if I worried and/or cared about what random people have said about and how they have hated on me, I doubt I would have passed the MMPI (cause I'd have issues) none the less make it through college and here on to OKC where I "SHALL" become an air traffic controller; I'm sure I speak for my co-workers when I say we couldn't care less if you are around or not to see us reach CPC status, we're here and "SHALL" become controllers traffic so deal with it.

 

[skydog]

I finish up Basics this Friday, but the ppl who are in my study group (we're all Enroute) don't plan on working traffic for no more than 3 yrs after getting CPC certified PERIOD. One of the girls wants to go into Management, one guy wants to transfer to the NTSB, and I plan on going into Human Resources (or any position that involves pushing paper not tin) ASAP. I only want to work traffic to get CPC status, then I want a desk position, work w/ the TMU, or any position that does NOT involve working traffic.

It's good to have ambitions, but it's also good not to go into this job or any job with your eye on the door. May I suggest you commit first to becoming a controller. Develop your skills and knowledged as much as you possibly can. That is what will create opportunities for you. If you go into any endeavour thinking about about moving on as quickly as you can, that will show up in your work and your attitude, and you will find that the very opportunities you covet will be sparse.

Put it another way: Neil Armstrong didn't set out to be the first man on the moon, but that's where he ended up because of the commitment he made to his assignments.

At the same time, don't listen to those naysayers who deride you because you are interestesd in working something more than an entry level job for the next 25 years.

Besides, the way I see it, only those with no imagination are the ones who want to work the same job for the rest of their lives.

 

[mallen14298]

It's good to have ambitions, but it's also good not to go into this job or any job with your eye on the door. May I suggest you commit first to becoming a controller. Develop your skills and knowledged as much as you possibly can. That is what will create opportunities for you. If you go into any endeavour thinking about about moving on as quickly as you can, that will show up in your work and your attitude, and you will find that the very opportunities you covet will be sparse.

Put it another way: Neil Armstrong didn't set out to be the first man on the moon, but that's where he ended up because of the commitment he made to his assignments.

At the same time, don't listen to those naysayers who deride you because you are interestesd in working something more than an entry level job for the next 25 years.

Besides, the way I see it, only those with no imagination are the ones who want to work the same job for the rest of their lives.

Thank you very much, I appreciate everything that you said. That's the perfect example of contructive criticism! I guess I may need to hold my horses, but I am setting the bar high for myself, always have and always will and will continue to do so until I leave this place.

 

[mallen14298]

Weak. Thats all you people are. This job is about stress and working traffic and if that isn't what you want to do, then don't apply and save us all from your pathetic attempt at becoming an air traffic controller...

HD

I'm not going to use any adjectives, i.e "simple" to describe what I think of this message and you; Nor am I going to go down to your juvenile level to name calling nor will I entertain the thought of you thinking we're "pathetic". Bottom line is this: We (let you tell it future pathetic controllers) are NOT going anywhere, IF you are an OJT you "WILL" (using FAA textbook phraseology) train us, and we will do, go, move up to, etc what we want after our OJT's help us to get CPC Period

 

[queeno]

I'm not going to use any adjectives, i.e "simple" to describe what I think of this message and you; Nor am I going to go down to your juvenile level to name calling nor will I entertain the thought of you thinking we're "pathetic". Bottom line is this: We (let you tell it future pathetic controllers) are NOT going anywhere, IF you are an OJT you "WILL" (using FAA textbook phraseology) train us, and we will do, go, move up to, etc what we want after our OJT's help us to get CPC Period

YOU havent made it yet nubee, remember there is a 50% wash out rate.

 

[derg]

YOU havent made it yet nubee, remember there is a 50% wash out rate.

So bright, so cheery, so early in the morning?

 

[mallen14298]

YOU havent made it yet nubee, remember there is a 50% wash out rate.

Please read: "At the same time, don't listen to those naysayers who deride you because you are interestesd in working something more than an entry level job for the next 25 years." This coming from skydog.

Next order of business, we are well on our way (with or without your support), and BTW @ the academy there's over a 90% pass rate, and where I'm headed I've heard the wash-out rate is around 30%; so please leave your figures in the 20th century and lets not mis-inform anyone on the site. Thanks

 

[JT ATC]

Please read: "At the same time, don't listen to those naysayers who deride you because you are interestesd in working something more than an entry level job for the next 25 years." This coming from skydog.

Next order of business, we are well on our way (with or without your support), and BTW @ the academy there's over a 90% pass rate, and where I'm headed I've heard the wash-out rate is around 30%; so please leave your figures in the 20th century and lets not mis-inform anyone on the site. Thanks

The academy is a freakin joke. Enroute portion has a 98% pass rate. It's ridiculous. Actual centers are less than that, (most average between 70-80% pass rate) but believe me...those numbers are inflated. There are a lot of people that should NOT be controlling planes right now.

And those OJT's may have to train, but act like you are entitled to this job and see how easily they can make your life a living hell.

 

[HiDef]

I'm not going to use any adjectives, i.e "simple" to describe what I think of this message and you; Nor am I going to go down to your juvenile level to name calling nor will I entertain the thought of you thinking we're "pathetic". Bottom line is this: We (let you tell it future pathetic controllers) are NOT going anywhere, IF you are an OJT you "WILL" (using FAA textbook phraseology) train us, and we will do, go, move up to, etc what we want after our OJT's help us to get CPC Period

Seriously, you need to go back and read what you posted in this thread. ATC is a stressfull job, yet you stated you, "don't want to deal with the "stress" that i've heard that is associated with working traffic". Thats the equivalent of me saying I want to be a firefighter but I don't want to have to put out any fires. You're contradicting yourself and making yourself out to be very selfish. It seems that most of the OTS people on here have a genuine desire to do this job and work airplanes yet you want to get on here and DEMAND that my fellow controllers and I train you just so you can sit in an office all day when everything is said and done. Why should any of us waste our time on training you just so you can skip out and never work planes again? Plus, if you're going to a center, your training will last 2-3 YEARS!!! Thats 2-3 years of somebody else's time being put into you so you can learn to work traffic on your own one day. And for what again? I mean, honestly, am I being unreasonable here by calling you out on this? As I said before, don't waste our time.

As for your attitude about we WILL (which means optional and not a requirement for the application of a procedure in the .65) train you and help you get to cpc status, good luck. Personally I've washed more than I've rated.

And I hate to say this but the fact that the academy boasts a 90% pass rate means the standard has been lowered. It's not really something to brag about, you know?

HD

 

[JT ATC]

As for your attitude about we WILL (which means optional in the .65)

:yup:

 

[queeno]

Please read: "At the same time, don't listen to those naysayers who deride you because you are interestesd in working something more than an entry level job for the next 25 years." This coming from skydog.

Next order of business, we are well on our way (with or without your support), and BTW @ the academy there's over a 90% pass rate, and where I'm headed I've heard the wash-out rate is around 30%; so please leave your figures in the 20th century and lets not mis-inform anyone on the site. Thanks

please come to C90 id love to be your trainer.

 

[vyper1278]

Where you think all those guys came from in the 80s?

Well there just seems to be such a split between controllers and CTI versus OTS it seemed like it was something of a new idea rather then a tried and true option that has worked in the past. I would not have thought we would be looked down upon if this wasnt a new option.

I never looked into it but just figured that prior they were either in school for it or prior military

 

[ATC RET 2003]

When I came in there was no contentiousness between OTS and CTI, because CTI didn't exist.

In fact, I don't even remember there being a separate application process for former military controllers, nor any preference (aside from the 5 or 10 bonus points on the Civil Service Exam allowed for ANY qualified veteran) given to them.

I could be wrong, though... I'm much older now and there's a LOT I can't remember.

 

[boondr]

Wow, just wow.

I am a developmental at a high level facility where the training environment is probably the best that can be asked for at such a level. And that attitude that Mallen14298 has would be about the quickest way to be made an example of that I can possibly imagine here. Our trainers bust their asses day in and day out to train us students who, myself included, were in reality way out of our league in terms of experience. If I showed a tiny bit of the "I am entitled" attititude Mallen14298 seems to have, I imagine my life would get a lot tougher and I definitely wouldn't have the few quals I have now.

Like the CPC's have said, they, not you have the penultimate ability to decide whether you can acheive CPC. I would take their advice to heart and rethink your approach to this whole upcoming journey of yours.

I tell the CPC's who I work with this and I abide by it. "I am their bitch, until the day I have a certificate that says I am not their bitch, and I am content with that"

Only thing you are entitled to is air to breath and an opportunity. You already have that, from here on out your attitude will help or hurt your ability to keep the opportunity.

 

[mallen14298]

Seriously, you need to go back and read what you posted in this thread. ATC is a stressfull job, yet you stated you, "don't want to deal with the "stress" that i've heard that is associated with working traffic". Thats the equivalent of me saying I want to be a firefighter but I don't want to have to put out any fires. You're contradicting yourself and making yourself out to be very selfish. It seems that most of the OTS people on here have a genuine desire to do this job and work airplanes yet you want to get on here and DEMAND that my fellow controllers and I train you just so you can sit in an office all day when everything is said and done. Why should any of us waste our time on training you just so you can skip out and never work planes again? Plus, if you're going to a center, your training will last 2-3 YEARS!!! Thats 2-3 years of somebody else's time being put into you so you can learn to work traffic on your own one day. And for what again? I mean, honestly, am I being unreasonable here by calling you out on this? As I said before, don't waste our time.

As for your attitude about we WILL (which means optional and not a requirement for the application of a procedure in the .65) train you and help you get to cpc status, good luck. Personally I've washed more than I've rated.

And I hate to say this but the fact that the academy boasts a 90% pass rate means the standard has been lowered. It's not really something to brag about, you know?

HD

Let me address a few of your comments: You said, "most of the OTS people on here have a genuine desire to do this job and work airplanes", I can tell you of quite a few ppl in my class in which that's not the case, some ppl's parents coaxed them into being controllers, some just who applied b/c they didn't have a job and got accepted and took the offer, 1 dude has a graduate degree and can't get a job in his field, and the list goes. I neved "demanded" anyone do anything, correct me if I'm wrong, but we can't train ourselves that's where OJT's come in to teach us the skills to become a controller. "Why should any of us waste our time on training you just so you can skip out and never work planes again?" Well, some people (like myself) strive to go farther and take their career to the next level and not be limited by a glass ceiling. Yes, that is someone else's time and like I said before I will work traffic, to get me where I want to be (otherwise I wouldn't have taken the job). "As I said before, don't waste our time." Too late, and what's it to you? "As for your attitude about we WILL (which means optional and not a requirement for the application of a procedure in the .65)" This coming verbatim from 7110.65 1-2-1 " d. Will means futurity, not a requirement for the application of a procedure. I don't see the word "optional" in that sentance, but I do see futurity meaning "a future condition or event". Last but not least I never did "brag" about the academy just stated the facts.

 

[mallen14298]

Wow, just wow.

I am a developmental at a high level facility where the training environment is probably the best that can be asked for at such a level. And that attitude that Mallen14298 has would be about the quickest way to be made an example of that I can possibly imagine here. Our trainers bust their asses day in and day out to train us students who, myself included, were in reality way out of our league in terms of experience. If I showed a tiny bit of the "I am entitled" attititude Mallen14298 seems to have, I imagine my life would get a lot tougher and I definitely wouldn't have the few quals I have now.

Like the CPC's have said, they, not you have the penultimate ability to decide whether you can acheive CPC. I would take their advice to heart and rethink your approach to this whole upcoming journey of yours.

I tell the CPC's who I work with this and I abide by it. "I am their bitch, until the day I have a certificate that says I am not their bitch, and I am content with that"

Only thing you are entitled to is air to breath and an opportunity. You already have that, from here on out your attitude will help or hurt your ability to keep the opportunity.

The "attitude" you and others may think I have is not one of "I am entitled", but it's confidence. I don't walk around with my chest out thinking I am the "stuff", I know everything, and no one can tell me anything, etc. With that type of attitue I might as well pack my bags and bounce right now b/c not only would it get me no where in ATC, but it also wouldn't get me anywhere in life nor would it have gotten me where I am and where I have come from. I'm humble, considerate, appreciative, open to other ppl's opinions (especially on here) and beliefs, and the list goes on. Fact and point, I'm no fool, if you think I'm gonna go to my facility and act like the Big Man on Campus, telling people all my goals and business, that's silly. I'm going to follow what has been posted on this site about how to get certified and when I do take it from there. Also, "they" don't have the "penultimate" anything, God does, but I'm not going to go into that on here. Last but not least I'm not going to tell anyone, "I am their bitch, until the day I have a certificate that says I am not their bitch, and I am content with that". I don't use that type on language and will not degrade myself like that.