What would you do?

Airdale

Well-Known Member
Okay, well its about time I make a clear decision here. Not that I really have a choice as of yet, but lets see.

My wife lost her job at the end of this past school year. The school board received a diminished budget, and my wife's teaching position was eliminated. She has been collecting unemployment since July, which pays a little more then half of her salary, which is about what I make. We own a house in Jersey, and I am based 3hrs away in NY. We had a nice financial cushion when I started this job, but its rapidly declining. Additionally, most of my expenses have to be put on credit cards because every dollar of my pay checks goes to pay not only my flight school loan, credit cards, insurance etc. but I'm also taking on most of the bills of the household, as my wife's unemployment checks just about cover the Morgage. I spend over $400/month to work here. That includes crashpad and fuel/food.

My wife has interviewed at 7 schools, but things have gotten so competitive in the teaching field that she hasn't been offered a job. In this financial situation, the outlook is dim at best. I'm not sure I can pay the household bills any longer. Our financial cushion has reached a point where we no longer want to touch that money. We need to keep at least 2 Morgage payments in there so that we have two backup months of paying on the house before we need to get out if need be. I work part time in the winter for NJ Hunting outfit, taking out clients for waterfowl hunts. Additionally I do part time work as a photographer for Conservation organizations. Therefore I needed a truck for this winter. I usually make a couple thousand dollars a winter with my part time work. This year, my part time work might be limited, but I'm still going to try, hence the reason I got rid of my car and bought a truck for the same payment (less then $200/month).

In addition to the above stress, there is the added frustration of not being paid for time spent on duty as mentioned before. With the current situation, I can not hold any sort of part time job to bring in another source of income, because I am in NY 4-5 days per week.

I've contemplated leaving Colgan for another Regional where QOL and pay might help my current situation. I've narrowed it down that the only company I would want to leave here for, is AWAC.

Cons of where I am now:
- Commuting/living expenses in excess of $400/month. Basically I need a second place to live in NY because of the out and back trips. We have no base that would eliminate this for me, except LGA on the Saab.
- Financial outlook in the next 2 years only improves marginally. From $21/hr to $26/hr.
- No per diem, no duty or trip rigs, no extra pay. Straight from the hip $21/flight hour
- No union. Uncertainty in the future with reguard to a whipsaw or staple to PCL list
- Uncertainty on time frame of Beech aircraft phase out, will more then likely not allow me chance to upgrade
- With commuting, its 2 hard days off with a 4 on 3 off, 1 hard day off with a 5 on 2 off.
- Expensive health care.

Pros of where I am:
- Average 80+ hrs of flight time a month
- Could see upgrade on Saab in minimum of 2yrs
- In 3yrs time could be building TPIC
- May be able to transition to the Q400 out of EWR as Captain in 3+yrs
- Major growth projected, including new flying contracts

Pros of AWAC:
- PHL based. 30 minute drive from home. Commuting costs very low. Would save $400/month just on commuting expenses
- $24/hr to start, $36/hr second year.
- Per Diem, Duty and Trip Rigs. Overnights with hotel provided (no crashpad needed)
- Very good contract among current industry leaders
- Own 13.5% of US Airways, one seat on the board
- ALPA represented

Cons of AWAC:
- Current 3yr upgrade. Time frame within 1yr of Colgan upgrade for me (hired low time)
- US Airways flying ammendable by 2011
- Growth? Unlike Colgan, AWAC has no real projected growth. Company states they are seeking contracts with other carriers. Questionable?


Basically, I don't know what the heck to do. I will have 2yrs in the right seat anyway because of my total time. Right now, its the commuting costs that are killing me. Home based would still be a little rough, but $400/month is almost half of my monthly take home pay. I want the upgrade, because of course I don't want to be at a Regional forever, but at the same time I need to do what I have to in order to keep our house. I'm sure my wife will find a job, but we're a week into the school year here and nothing yet.

I know everything is a crap shoot. One Regional is just a crapshoot as the other. But in this case, would choose the QOL/pay over growth/upgrade? Is it really worth that much? If upgrade at AWAC stays around 3yrs, then essentially I would be upgrading there very close to within a year of upgrading at Colgan. Being PHL based, even if on a Reserve line, would at least allow me a chance to work part time with my father in law.

Just when you think you have it figured out.....:)

And Seggy, I understand your reasoning for me to stay here, but it just makes more financial sense - to me anyway, to leave. I do not want to leave the industry! I love the job, man its what I've always wanted. And I could care less about flying a Barbie Jet or a Beech. Honestly I think the Beech is the best airplane for ones career development as an aviator. But credit card limits can only take you so far. Even single guys have a hard time financially at this company.
 
Side note as well. I do not have a College Degree. I am starting online classess this fall with money from the GI bill. So I need at least another 4yrs before I can obtain a degree. That might be a big hit against me for getting to a Major. I'll try before my degree is complete anyway, but I might get stuck flying at the Regionals until I can complete that. In that case, I'd rather get stuck somewhere home based, with a contract and decent pay.
 
Well first of all good luck to your wife, thats really tough. AWAC seems to be a really good company to work for. I have a friend that just started with them and he really seems to like it. He was based in DCA for a week and now he is in PHL. I don't work there but I believe PHL is there junior base. They seem to have a really good contract as well. As far as leaving colgan, thats going to be a tough decision. Speaking just about money AWAC wouldn't be a bad bet. Even if you upgrade at colgan the pay as a captain is not that good. You could probably make the same as a 2nd or 3rd year FO at AWAC. Unless you have a sure bet at a major when you reach the magical 1000 TPIC I would try to get on at AWAC. But thats just me.

Adam
 
Yeah Im with him on this one....Despite the upgrade times, you are still going to be 4 years trying to get your degree. If it takes 3 years to upgrade at AWAC, by the time you are ready to graduate you might be ready to apply to a major bc you will have your degree AND close to or right on you 1000 TPIC...

I wish you luck man, you will have your hands full with going to school and working. No offense to you, but this is the exact reason I try to stress to aspiring pilots that want to go to the airlines immediately instead of getting the degree to GO TO SCHOOL first....

If the financial part is killing you, I would say the picture is pretty clear.....My vote is for AWAC....And strictly because of how you said your financial situation is..
 
Given the parameters you established, I'd go with the saving $400 a month. AWAC. However...

What are your bride's job prospects right now?

Also - since she is now unemployed, do you guys have to stay in Jersey? You could potentially move some place much cheaper to live, especially if you could get based there - Colgan has an IAH base, right? How about a move to Houston?

Or Dallas? Cheap to live here, too.

Just wondering. With her out of a job, it DOES open up some options to you.
 
Would you ever consider leaving the regionals all together and finding a $35-45/hour instructing job for the next year? I remember you told me you did auto mechanic work. If thats a possibility, I think it could definately help with your financial situation, and you just may make some contacts to keep you out of the regionals for good. Just an idea, and I don't think it would be giving up. I know your goal is to ultimately get to a major, and I think it is possible to do that without a regional airline. Goodluck man, haven't heard from ya in a while btw.
 
Thanks for replies folks!

Even if you upgrade at colgan the pay as a captain is not that good. You could probably make the same as a 2nd or 3rd year FO at AWAC. Unless you have a sure bet at a major when you reach the magical 1000 TPIC I would try to get on at AWAC. But thats just me.

Adam

I've looked at that fact as well. The only major difference would be you're loggin TPIC at Colgan, still right seat at AWAC. But if I upgrade in 3yrs at AWAC, the pay is definitely decent.

MSUDAWG said:
I wish you luck man, you will have your hands full with going to school and working. No offense to you, but this is the exact reason I try to stress to aspiring pilots that want to go to the airlines immediately instead of getting the degree to GO TO SCHOOL first....

Thanks man! When I graduated High School, my parents did not have money to pay for college and flight training, and we (being uneducated about the industry), never looked at doing the two separate. I thought you needed a degree in aviation. So I started at a local college doing the Aviation degree and the flight training, but I had to obtain a good paying job to afford the flight training. We of course that didn't work out. I could only afford to fly once a week and my parents didn't have the money either. Thats what led me, after 2 years of breaking a sweat in a garage turning wrenches, to join the military to get some help paying for college. I started school in the Coast Guard, until 9/11 happened I could never do it. I wish I had the degree, but at 24yrs old out of the Guard, I chose to get my ratings quickly.

killbilly said:
Given the parameters you established, I'd go with the saving $400 a month. AWAC. However...

What are your bride's job prospects right now?

Also - since she is now unemployed, do you guys have to stay in Jersey? You could potentially move some place much cheaper to live, especially if you could get based there - Colgan has an IAH base, right? How about a move to Houston?

Or Dallas? Cheap to live here, too.

Just wondering. With her out of a job, it DOES open up some options to you.

Well, I've brought up the idea with her on more then one occasion. She could use my GI Bill benefits to go back to school in order to get certified in another state. But her counter argument is that, with as much as I'm gone, she loves living close to her Mother. She spends a lot of time with her doing "girl stuff". I would feel like the devil if I tried to force her into living so far away. By having her family 10 minutes away, I think it makes her life easier when I'm gone. Additionally, I'm not sure that I could support the two of us on Regional FO pay, unless she could collect unemployment in another state after just moving there.

MikeOH58 said:
Would you ever consider leaving the regionals all together and finding a $35-45/hour instructing job for the next year? I remember you told me you did auto mechanic work. If thats a possibility, I think it could definately help with your financial situation, and you just may make some contacts to keep you out of the regionals for good. Just an idea, and I don't think it would be giving up. I know your goal is to ultimately get to a major, and I think it is possible to do that without a regional airline. Goodluck man, haven't heard from ya in a while btw.

Hey Mike! Sorry I haven't gotten back to you in awhile. I think I remember you leaving me a message, then I got side tracked and totally forgot to call you back.

To be honest with you, as much as I enjoyed being a Flight Instructor, I just don't think thats a step I'd be willing to make unless I had no choice. I did make some contacts at ATP TTN with some Corporate gigs, but that was a lifestyle that never really interested me. I've always been much more interested in flying for an Airline, not that its a great thing! :D

I do want to get to a Major, but I don't want to make so many sacrifices to get there, that when I do get there, I'm 40yrs old and asking myself what just happened to the last 10 years? When the hell did we have a kid? :D Funny as it sounds, I feel like that sometimes now when last week I had a 5 on 2 off and I was home for a day and a half before I had to leave out again because I have to get in Albany the night before my flying starts. Now if this job was paying me $50k+, yeah it would suck being away so much, but the money would certainly sugar coat it. :D
 
Who cares if while on the road to a major:

-Your wife leaves you
-You lose your house

I was in a situation where I thought to myself, "Huh, I could have the minimums for Southwest by the time I'm 27...and probably want to hang myself and hate my job...hmm...something's messed up here..."
 
Do what you need to do to take care of the bills. If AWAC is a better option than Colgan financially - do it sooner rather than later. The longer you go before attacking the financial issue the more stress it will put on you and your wife - which can lead to a whole nother set of problems.

Maybe this is also an opportunity for a change of venue. How important is staying in NJ? If it's not critical, maybe your wife could start looking at teaching jobs in other area's. Teaching can be done almost anywhere, as can regional flying. Ever wanted to live in the Southeast or the Rockies? Maybe this is an opportunity to do something of that nature. Don't know - just a thought. Best wishes to you guys.



Max
 
I'm with Mr. Max and "pay the bills."

Staying where you are is fine, especially with the house and the current market. AWAC sounds like you will have better pay and QOL NOW. Who knows what is going to happen in 2011, or with Colgan/Pinnacle for that matter.

Commuting sucks. And WHEN you have kids before hitting the big 4-0, living near her folks will make life A LOT EASIER for her, and therefore for you too, when you are on a 4-day.

Ok, so the upgrade is a little longer and the Beech rocks. The longer you wait, the longer it'll be until you get the 2nd yr FO pay. :D

Best of luck.
 
Also remember that AWAC took concessions on their contract. From what my friend has told me they are in the process to get the old contract restored. I believe second year pay was about $42/hr maybe more. Some of the AWAC guys here can probably shed some light on that.
 
- PHL based. 30 minute drive from home.

That's all I needed to see to give you some advice. Take it from someone who spent over five years commuting and is now based at home driving 25 minutes to work: all the PIC time in the world can't make up for the huge bump in QOL you get from being based at home. I know you see that TPIC carrot hanging in front of you at CJC, but you'll be much happier if you go to AWAC. I would bet on upgrade times dropping at AWAC in the near future also with the majors all hiring now. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
Something else you might think about as well...

Mortgage defaults are at an all-time high - people are literally walking away from their homes and taking the credit hit all over the place, and companies like Countrywide are getting VERY creative about refinancing with no point, no closing costs, NOTHING out of pocket to keep you as a regular paying customer. You might want to call up your mortgage company and say, "I'm in a bind, and I need your help. What can you do for me?"

If the job prospect at AWAC is really promising, then go get it. Cover the bills, man. Because when you're making a more livable wage, you don't want the extra income going to service backdated, delinquent debt.
 
Airdale,

Sorry to hear about all of this, I know it can be rough. I would really say come to AWAC. The only thing you will not like is having to go through INDOC again but that aside, you will have a blast. I can almost guarentee you that you will be hired. I have yet to hear of anyone being turned down. You get paid BLOCK or BETTER here which from what I understand is unheard of at other places. If you are schedualed for a trip and weather or maint. shuts you down you still get paid. You will be in an RJ and despite the 3yr upgrade you will be getting paid pretty well in your second and third years. Also everyone claims that it is dropping fast. If you want to talk more about it shoot me a PM and I will try to help you as much as possible. Good Luck to you

Ken
 
The reward is always sweeter when you were willing to sacrifice to earn it.

(Note: if you're <25 and everything was paid for by your parents, this means nothing to you, and you just might even argue!)
 
I'm sorry to hear about your wife's job. I'm going to chime in with more of an observation than an opinion. It didn't take you very long to become miserable with your flying job. I work at a company that doesn't have the best reputation for the way they treat their pilots. Many of my friends who were miserable here made the lateral move to other regionals like SkyWest, Chatauqua/Republic/Shuttle America, and ExpressJet. Initially they were happy, but it hasn't taken them long to start complaining again. No airline is perfect and if you're really that miserable at one who's to say things will be better at another?

It sounds like Colgan is getting ready to hire street captains. You can't be that far off from some golden TPIC time. You could upgrade in less than 12 months, get a raise, start building TPIC time, and start applying to the majors. United, Delta, Continental, SWA, UPS, and FedEx are currently hiring and Northwest, American, and US Airways should start soon. I'm not sure how many of the above require a degree, but you could work on that while you build the PIC time.

I'm not trying to slam you or say you're a miserable SOB, I just see so many people leave where I am now thinking things will be so much greater somewhere else and when it isn't it's like a slap in the face.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your wife's job. I'm going to chime in with more of an observation than an opinion. It didn't take you very long to become miserable with your flying job. I work at a company that doesn't have the best reputation for the way they treat their pilots. Many of my friends who were miserable here made the lateral move to other regionals like SkyWest, Chatauqua/Republic/Shuttle America, and ExpressJet. Initially they were happy, but it hasn't taken them long to start complaining again. No airline is perfect and if you're really that miserable at one who's to say things will be better at another?

It sounds like Colgan is getting ready to hire street captains. You can't be that far off from some golden TPIC time. You could upgrade in less than 12 months, get a raise, start building TPIC time, and start applying to the majors. United, Delta, Continental, SWA, UPS, and FedEx are currently hiring and Northwest, American, and US Airways should start soon. I'm not sure how many of the above require a degree, but you could work on that while you build the PIC time.

I'm not trying to slam you or say you're a miserable SOB, I just see so many people leave where I am now thinking things will be so much greater somewhere else and when it isn't it's like a slap in the face.

If I gave the impression that I'm miserable where I am at, well I apologize because thats not totally the case. I love my job, its great. Yes I have complained about a few things that this company does, but really my only real complaints are with reguard to money, and getting screwed by the company with very little compensation. I don't complain about the job and all the little annoyances that come with it. Yeah, it sucks when you have delays and MX/WX cancellations, but I don't whine about that, its part of the job so I accept it. I have never come on here and complained about last minute schedule changes, the lack of communication between Scheduling and Dispatch etc. My major issue is with the schedule and how the company keeps you on duty for 12+ hours with not even half of that for a pay credit. No per diem, no duty or trip rigs - nothing. I can't be spending half of my life responsible to a company for a measily compensation that can not pay my bills! Even if it is flying airplanes.

I mean I thought thats where the problem starts in this industry. People willing to literally "Fly for Free!". Is that not an issue in this industry? Well how am I any better, flying for a company for such ridiculous compensation? If it wasn't for the flying part, I sure wouldn't be here. Don't get me wrong, I understand 1st yr wages are low in this industry, and I fully understood that I would be making less then $20k a year. But also at the time, my wife was making $45k+ a year. On that salary, I was able to barely get by. I didn't have much money to do anything, and I wasn't paying the bills in the house. Now my wife makes as much as I do. Our combined income has taken a huge $25k hit. Sure she will get another teaching job, but when? For how long do I have to support the household? Because its running me into debt quickly when I'm spending $500+ on the utilities in our house. Plus I pay $540/month just for my school loan!

The problem is, I can't upgrade here in 12 months. Its more like a 2yr upgrade for me. Why? Because I was hired with 450TT. READ this part low timers. If you get hired low time, you will probably not have enough flight time to upgrade when you're number is initially called at places like Colgan. I've been told by COLGAN, that I'll be right seat for at least another 1yr and a half, more likely 2yrs. Its not about the fast upgrade. You can't upgrade fast when you don't have the time! It will take me a year at the very absolute least to build another 1000 hours. That will put me at 1800TT.

Now doing the math for working at AWAC, the first year pay isn't that much better then Colgan. But in addition to the extra $200-300 a month at guarantee, I'm also saving $400+ a month on expenses being PHL based. That equates to a total monthly savings of $600-700! Thats a LOT of money when you're broke. I can't and won't get out of the industry, not just yet.

It just makes more sense to go somewhere where the money is better, the financial growth potential is greater over a 2-3yr period, and upgrade would be within a year apart (currently) anyway. If I could upgrade here at Colgan this time next year, I'd probably stay. Because I'd be making as much as 2nd yr FO pay at AWAC, but building TPIC. Problem is, at my flight time, its not going to happen. Especially when the Beech is ready to be completely gone and I finally have the mins to upgrade on the Beech, but can't.
 
And I also understand the argument that Colgan is growing, AWAC is somewhat stagnant, and I should just stick it out at Colgan, get the upgrade and be making more then an FO at AWAC. I totally understand that arguement. But, how many of those that make that arguement, have a house? Are married? You have no idea the amount of money you spend to own a house. Its not just the morgage. And our house is small. Its a two story townhouse that we bought for $145k. Thats cheap in Jersey, but thats still a $1300/month morgage with taxes. Then you have the gas and electric, which is outragoues in NJ. Our little house runs us on average $140/month in the winter, and $90-100/month in the summer without running the AC!! Plus the phone, internet and basic cable package is $100/month. Then you have the water bill, you have the insurance, the association dues, the repair to the friggin outside water line which we had to pay for. The new friggin water heater which we had to replace in addition to the $7-8k we dropped on the house to make it livable, because the people before us trashed the place.

But we'll be damned if we move back with our parents. This career isn't worth having to live with my wife at our parents house.
 
My wife is a teacher and there's no way we could have survived my first year pay living where we do without her teaching. I will say that living in base would make a huge difference. Whatever you decide, good luck with your decision.
 
My friend is coming up on his one year mark with AWAC and he's been on reserve for that entire year, never breaking guarantee.
 
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