What should a newbe do in prior to entry in 121 world

Our taxi fuel is 80% of the time 200 lbs, not much at all if we are full, and don't have room to spare if we are sitting on the ramp cutting into our MIN / TO fuel.

Ah wait, it might help if I add that I'm not on a jet. Total capacity is 5,678 pounds on the Dash 8.

I suppose I shouldn't have been so quick to generalize. My estimations are a little skewed these days. Carry on. :)
 
I suppose I shouldn't have been so quick to generalize. My estimations are a little skewed these days. Carry on. :)

Please excuse my inability to read and understand these jet numbers here. lol. Maybe someday I'll know what it's like to have "numbers" like that. :aghast:
 
Please excuse my inability to read and understand these jet numbers here. lol. Maybe someday I'll know what it's like to have "numbers" like that. :aghast:

Just an airplane with bigger numbers. Nothing more to it. :)
 
The point of the story is I told the fueler to his face to put 5900 onboard and after he acknowledged me he still underfueled them. I thought it was worth a chuckle.

I see. Your story made it sound like you were the fueler and the other person the pilot.

Are these fuel savings initiatives in place at other regionals who provide feed to DL, AA, UA, etc?
 
"Where's the mechanic?"

Is there something more to this question? :)

The mechanic's a flight away, at the base. You're at an out station. I didn't really add much to it to prompt questions like yours because to a new hire who has no experience with things like that, their world can often be just like that- A problem and no idea of what their options are.
 
The mechanic's a flight away, at the base. You're at an out station. I didn't really add much to it to prompt questions like yours because to a new hire who has no experience with things like that, their world can often be just like that- A problem and no idea of what their options are.

Well heck, we almost always have a flight mechanic, so what the hell do I know? :)

Sounds like you're bumping pax and filling the other wing to me!
 
That could be an option, depending on the weather. It seems like some crews are better prepared than others to handle things like that. I wish we had a flying mechanic...
 
Bonus study:

You're flying with a new captain. The single point is deferred. The fueler walks up and asks if you can transfer fuel (can't without maintenance). They forgot to divide the gallons by 2. The captain looks at you.
Ours is in the SOP, done by direction of Maintenance Control, and the answer is "Absolutely, with the airplane on the ground and access to the fueling panel and a source of power for the boost pumps."

You'd better believe I'll have the manual out while I'm doing it, though.
 
That could be an option, depending on the weather. It seems like some crews are better prepared than others to handle things like that. I wish we had a flying mechanic...

Technically we were trained on how to operate the fueling panel during initial...briefly. Given no other option, it could be done by the crew at my (well, as of 7pm EST tonight, *former*) company. I took your "Can't do it without maintenance" to mean that you can't do it without a mechanic present. Depends on company policy to allow the crew to do it.
 
Well on the Embraer, we can't transfer in the airplane's normal line configuration, but a mechanic can do it. It's a matter of pulling breakers and there might be a manually operated valve also. Not quickly done. And in school we are of course taught that you can't transfer because they teach us normal line operations.
 
Well on the Embraer, we can't transfer in the airplane's normal line configuration, but a mechanic can do it. It's a matter of pulling breakers and there might be a manually operated valve also. Not quickly done. And in school we are of course taught that you can't transfer because they teach us normal line operations.

For the CRJ, you just start up the engine on the high side. The engine will even it out pretty quickly with the motive flow.
 
I see. Your story made it sound like you were the fueler and the other person the pilot.

Are these fuel savings initiatives in place at other regionals who provide feed to DL, AA, UA, etc?
Ops guy. As long as we're clear on who didn't derp. :p
 
This one really depends. What's the weather like en route and at the destination? How much contingency/extra/hold fuel do you have? What's the planned burn on taxi out and what's realistically expected? Is a single engine taxi a possibility to get some of the fuel back?

Exactly. There are times when it just isn't worth it to wait for a fuel truck to get back out to the airplane.

For me, 200 lbs of fuel represents ~ 10 minutes at cruise power or ~15 - 20 minutes if I pull it back or I have to hold. You learn to look at all options and if you really need that 200 lbs. If I feel I do, fuel truck is coming back out to the airplane and we are potentially taking a delay. If I think I don't we need it, we're gone.
 
Bonus study:

You're flying with a new captain. The single point is deferred. The fueler walks up and asks if you can transfer fuel (can't without maintenance). They forgot to divide the gallons by 2. The captain looks at you.

The mechanic's a flight away, at the base. You're at an out station. I didn't really add much to it to prompt questions like yours because to a new hire who has no experience with things like that, their world can often be just like that- A problem and no idea of what their options are.

Well on the Embraer, we can't transfer in the airplane's normal line configuration, but a mechanic can do it. It's a matter of pulling breakers and there might be a manually operated valve also. Not quickly done. And in school we are of course taught that you can't transfer because they teach us normal line operations.

So... are you teaching a new FO/CA bad habits by doing a procedure that only maintenance can do?

I think this is a case study of CRM outside the crew and cockpit environment.

As a captain, my first step is to talk to dispatch and advise them we are in a potential delay situation, briefly explain the problem, and ask to speak to maintenance control. (as an FO... hey captain... why don't you call dispatch?) When maintenance control advises me they can't send a company mechanic, I'll ask about contract maintenance. If no contract maintenance, then I'll ask how do we solve the problem. If the procedure is maintenace only, they should either have a written procedure, or should be able to write one out fairly quickly. I would get them to send me that procedure along with authorization from the maintenance control supervisor and whatever flight ops manager has operational control that day. Once I have the procedure and authorization in hand, I'll do the procedure while talking to mainteance control.


Like I said... this is not an excercise in how much you know about the airplane, it is an excercise in good CRM.
 
So... are you teaching a new FO/CA bad habits by doing a procedure that only maintenance can do?

I think this is a case study of CRM outside the crew and cockpit environment.

As a captain, my first step is to talk to dispatch and advise them we are in a potential delay situation, briefly explain the problem, and ask to speak to maintenance control. (as an FO... hey captain... why don't you call dispatch?) When maintenance control advises me they can't send a company mechanic, I'll ask about contract maintenance. If no contract maintenance, then I'll ask how do we solve the problem. If the procedure is maintenace only, they should either have a written procedure, or should be able to write one out fairly quickly. I would get them to send me that procedure along with authorization from the maintenance control supervisor and whatever flight ops manager has operational control that day. Once I have the procedure and authorization in hand, I'll do the procedure while talking to mainteance control.


Like I said... this is not an excercise in how much you know about the airplane, it is an excercise in good CRM.

Exactly.
 
GET YOUR MULTI ATP BEFORE YOU START A 121 TRAINING PROGRAM! It's so much easier than studying til midnight like me day in and day out, weekends included. I could probably build the dang plane when I'm all said and done, though. Worth it? Yes. Exhausting? You have no idea. I've compared it to a year of Junior level college at a major university crammed into 7 weeks (sim included). Overstudy everything, and expect something slightly less than that. The check airmen here are willing and want to teach us young'ns the in's and outs regardless of your flying experience, but definitely the 0 time jet pilots, like myself.
 
GET YOUR MULTI ATP BEFORE YOU START A 121 TRAINING PROGRAM! It's so much easier than studying til midnight like me day in and day out, weekends included. I could probably build the dang plane when I'm all said and done, though. Worth it? Yes. Exhausting? You have no idea. I've compared it to a year of Junior level college at a major university crammed into 7 weeks (sim included). Overstudy everything, and expect something slightly less than that. The check airmen here are willing and want to teach us young'ns the in's and outs regardless of your flying experience, but definitely the 0 time jet pilots, like myself.

Don't burn yourself out. Make sure you're getting a full night's sleep every night, and that you're eating proper meals. Have a beer with dinner, too. Initial training is a fire hose, but you need to pace yourself so that you're able to perform in sim.
 
Don't burn yourself out. Make sure you're getting a full night's sleep every night, and that you're eating proper meals. Have a beer with dinner, too. Initial training is a fire hose, but you need to pace yourself so that you're able to perform in sim.
This hugely. Don't freak your cookies—they wouldn't have hired you if they didn't think you could do it.
 
Every major training program I've been at included instructors who encouraged us to take an evening off from studying, to allow our brains to organize everything.
 
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