What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio?

Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I dunno, call me crazy, but if I were you guys, I'd spend a lot more time working with De727UPS than striving to discount any input he has.

He's been thru ERAU, got a taste of reality and worked his way up to one of the top 757/767 jobs in the industry, with captain seniority.

So before you say, "Oh, that Don's full of •e", just stop for a moment and realize that he's where you, and I for the most part, aspire to be.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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"who will also make you study to the level that will make you competitive on an interview."

Don't you think it should be up to the individual to be professional and set a high standard for himself? Not up to the reg you are training under. What you are saying is DCA forces you to a higher standard. That's fine but I submit that a 61 guy can meet the same standard through hard work and professionalism. Not all 61 guys are up to the task. Nor do all DCA students "graduate" from the program.

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It is obviously up to the individual to study for an interview and be prepared. No school can make you do this.

Where the school is most important is during the initial training. If someone is going to get their private and they have a turd for a CFI, then they will probably learn alot of bad habits. They will probably also not know everything they should, because their CFI did not teach them what they should know, or even tell them what to study. I think that the private and instrument are probably the two most important ratings for this reason. If you have a good CFI for these, then you have a good foundation to build on and the quality of instruction becomes much less important.

The advantage the larger schools like DCA have is that they have a very standardized syllabus and strong management oversite. If someone is not doing their job as a CFI, then the situation will be corrected.

You can obviously get the same quality Part 61, but for someone who has little knowledge of aviation this can be difficult. Many get poor instruction and simply do not know any better.

I am not saying that the student should not have to do any research on the schools they select, it is just hard to make an 'informed decision' when you do not have much knowledge of the subject.

This is my only problem with DCA. I am sure they provide a good education and they do send their instructors to the Airlines. The problem is the Ads. They prey on the uninformed and are misleading at best. There are many other good schools that do not use misleading advertisements to drum up students. For those of us that have 'been there and done that' it makes it hard to take DCA seriously.

I would also think that the ads would hurt DCA in the long run as well. If you enter the school as a relatively uninformed student, you will learn more about the industry as your knowledge of flying grows. During this process you may loose alot of respect for the school if what the marketing people told you was somewhat less than truthful. If you then start to have any sort of problem at the school, management will have already lost alot of credibility as you will already feel deceived. This could easily result in the loss of students and bad feelings over minor problems.

From a personal standpoint, I was unimpressed with DCA marketing when I visited the school (back when it was still Comair). It may have changed, but most of the marketing people were not pilots and seemed to have little knowledge of the industry. I had already done some research and I knew that some of what they were telling me was BS. Even my wife who did not have any aviation background was somewhat shocked by their unprofessionalism and the 'hard sell'.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

HA...I have been thinking of doing a post where I re-write the DCA ads in a way I find more socially acceptable.

For example: We have the best maintenance facility anywhere.

You could say....Our maintenance is top notch. We strive to exceed FAA standards. Our maintenance dept has won the Diamond award presented by the FAA for exceptional maintenance.

To just say "we have the best maintenance facility anywhere" is rather arrogant.

This theme of arrogance and half truth's form the basis of DCA's ads.

If you think we are critical at Jetcareers, go over to flightinfo and see what those guys think of DCA

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=26460&page=3&pp=40&highlight=DCA
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"For those of us that have 'been there and done that' it makes it hard to take DCA seriously."

Amen brother....
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"To just say "we have the best maintenance facility anywhere" is rather arrogant."

So with your reasoning, you would not use a product that advertised itself at "the best" because it might arrogant? To be fair, you should probably find some message boards for some of the following products and wage a personal war against them also.

Browsing through the ads in AOPA Pilot, April 2004, you would certainly want to avoid products/services like:

Skywatch/L3 Communications - "... settle for nothing but the best."

Mooney - "The Best Performing Piston Singles..."

Superior Air Parts, Inc. - "... the best certified pre-owned engine...."

ASA - "You Deserve the Best - Training Starts Here!"

icom - "simply the best"

Pocket Plates - "Treat yourself to the best."

Aircraft Spruce West/East - "Best Selection!"

David Clark - "Aviation's Number One Noise Attenuating Headset"

The nerve it must take for companies such as these to make such outrageous claims!

I recall from my advertising/business law class way back when, it is not illegal to claim to be the best as long as the company making that claim honestly bieleves it to be the truth.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

Point well taken. I still find DCA's ads to be misleading and would like to see them change.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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[There are plenty of reasons people drop out and yes, among them there are the "people that think the school sucks" ....

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I heard a story several years back where this girl was in a sim at Comair Academy, flustered by her inability to properly control this precision piece of training equipment, she slams the yoke forward and storms out of the sim room, presumably after giving the instructor some harsh words. Now the story could end here with her being a dropout but instead she unseats the president at Comair Academy and took his job. I hear tell she now drives a $125,000. Mercedes. Any truth to that?
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

S-class Mercedes as president of a flight school?

Someone's rates may be a little too high!
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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S-class Mercedes as president of a flight school?

Someone's rates may be a little too high!

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C'mon Doug, there are other schools out there that are just as much as ours. After all, doesn't the price ultimately depend on the student and how well they progress through the program? And you praise these schools as being "a great school. Glad to hear it." As far as the Mercedes, it isn't a $125,000 car... it is only $90,000.
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But seriously, maybe she comes from a family of some money. I don't know, maybe she got a good deal on it. Maybe she is making enough to buy it from DCA's salary. We don't know. Since when do we start judging people and schools based on the types of cars??
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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For example: We have the best maintenance facility anywhere.

You could say....Our maintenance is top notch. We strive to exceed FAA standards. Our maintenance dept has won the Diamond award presented by the FAA for exceptional maintenance.

To just say "we have the best maintenance facility anywhere" is rather arrogant.

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Seems like marketing is listening to ya UPS... as I was sitting in my "library" reading the new AOPA Pilot, I read our ad. "... we recently received the FAA's AMT Diamond Award for Excellence, their highest recognition for safety and quality of maintenance in the industry." No claims of being the best, etc. Anyway, I recently read an article about UPS hiring over 100 new pilots this year. Not that it matters to us instructors at this point, but was wondering if you have heard anything about this trend continuing for a couple years, the implications of the overseas operations they talked about, etc... Thanks in advance...
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

Funny you should mention that. I read that same ad today in Flying and noticed the way they worded it. With respect to the point about maintenance, I thought it was very nicely worded and respectfully said. One strange thing I noticed was a program called the 10 in 4, or 4 in 10, or something like that but they don't explain it in the ad. Sure there's something about it at the web site.

Also, the TAB, Gulfstream, and RAA ads I found to be more offensive than the DCA ads. Those forums here don't have any/many defenders so it's hardly worth bringing it up.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"I recently read an article about UPS hiring over 100 new pilots this year."

Line pilots are the last ones to know what's going on. We have been understaffed for years but the company is making it work because we are parking older airplanes and because they are always find ways to make us more productive. Our contract allows them to build terrible schedules and that's what they have been doing. They keep getting worse and worse but that extra productivity out of us has made it so they could get by without hiring. The 100 guys is a token number. It could be political....trying to appease the pilot group during heated contract talks. I think the new contract won't pass without some work rule changes that will necessitate quite a bit of new hiring. We just can't go on like this....
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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S-class Mercedes as president of a flight school?

Someone's rates may be a little too high!

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Not implying anything but our old friends the Williams family (Airline Training Academy - remember them?) all drove nice cars. Ruth had a Cadillac, the sons had Mercedes or Lexus, daughter drove a new Explorer. The week the school closed, one of the sons took delivery of a brand new Mercedes.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

But on second thought, it is a business and not a public service!
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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S-class Mercedes as president of a flight school?

Someone's rates may be a little too high!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not implying anything but our old friends the Williams family (Airline Training Academy - remember them?) all drove nice cars. Ruth had a Cadillac, the sons had Mercedes or Lexus, daughter drove a new Explorer. The week the school closed, one of the sons took delivery of a brand new Mercedes.

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And a third thought, the President isn't an owner like the williams family. She is accountable to many others. If you're not implying anything, you shouldn't have said anything. You "appear" to lump the two into the same category. The williams were/are scum. You're post is highly irresponsible. It equates to the same level of irresponsibility by the general media planting a bad seed in the publics mind by throwing out a loose statement that has no basis of fact. (i.e. Is your airline pilot sober? Will tell you what we found out at 11:00) That statement by the local news made me fume because it was so incendiary without basis. Personal responsibility speaks loudly. Don't bait without basis, it's weak. Get your facts before you post. Then spout away.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

If your so concerned about her car, maybe you should call her and get the information form the source instead of assuming. You'd be in for quite a surprise. I'd love to tell you about it, but its not my business to.

Its easier to assume things than it is to accept the truth, I'd be the first to admit that, but I challange everyone to give her a call and get their stories straight.

The Williams family... whatta joke. We are accredited, they were not. We don't take all the money up front, they did. Our students funds are FDIC insured, there's were not (nor so I beleive any other fights school are, correct me if I am wrong).
Very weak attempt at a comparison, not that you were implying anything.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

some of the crap people argue about on these boards is ridiculous. people should worry more about actually learning to fly, and getting throught their initial ratings than getting a "guaranteed airline interview". i believe in setting goals as much as the next guy but some of you people are crazy. i find it comical that some of these guys who are working on their private, or who have a private with wet ink are hell bent on these airline interviews. learn how to do chandelles first. better yet, learn what the difference is between a precision and non-precision approach is. worry about getting hired at comair later when you at least halfway no what your doing.
 
If you want to see the facts, go to deltaconnectionacademy.com. They have just posted a list of all of their airline graduates from February 2004 through November of 2004. This should answer a lot of questions, and may keep the "bashers" at bay.
 
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If you want to see the facts, go to deltaconnectionacademy.com. They have just posted a list of all of their airline graduates from February 2004 through November of 2004. This should answer a lot of questions, and may keep the "bashers" at bay.

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You see it won't.

The school I go to doesn't feel the need to advertise the fact that all of our graduates go to an airline.
 
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