What is it really like to Train/Teach at DCA

dpewing

New Member
I'd like to hear from some current students and instructors about what they think of DCA. I'm not interested in hearing more of the same from people who used to attend, or didn't get hired as instructors. What are the classes like? What's the homework like? What is the CFI/CFII training like? Do you have to create all the lessons plans for the entire Private pilots course as a CFI student? Also, mentioning in your post that you're a current student or instructor would be great. And for those of you who will flame this thread with more of the same, at least include that you're a disgruntled former student etc.

Thanks,
David
 
well since it looks like your just dyin to get a huge student loan you should check out FlightSafety. I have never heard anyone complain about the quality or marketing. Basically its some place that you wont have to make excuses for goin there like many former Comairers I have talked to.

and no i m not a disgruntled student i just dont like seein people get fed bu!!sh*t and being ripped off.
 
dpewing,

i am currently an instructor at DCA. I am in the private group and am, for the most part, a fan of DCA. My overall thoughts:

1. Is it expensive? Yep. Is it worth it? To me it was, to others not so much so. You have to decide that for yourself. I chose to spend the extra money because I am older (36) and wanted to get my ratings more quickly so I can still get 20 good years at the airlines before I have to retire. I could have done my ratings almost as quickly at my local FBO, but for me there was a catch 22. If i did them at an FBO I would not have been able to get a loan. That meant I would have had to work while getting my ratings and therefore It would have taken me longer... so I chose to spend more $$ and get my ratings more quickly. Also, things like being very prepared for lessons, memorizing checklists etc. can save you time in the ariplane, and therefore money. For instance, we are not required to memorize the runup checklist, but if you can do it from memory, you can save a few minutes each flight. You do that and you save hobbs time, therefore money.

2. Is the marketing bad? In many ways I think so. I have 12 years of print advertising as my background and I would certainly do some things differently. I know to look for the fine print in the ads and ask the right questions to get clarification on claims that don't seem quite right. The only real problem I have with the ads is the claim that we are the only school authorized to service the entire Delta Connections System. I am sure factually that is probably correct. Somewhere there is probably some written contract that says we are authorized to service every single Delta Connection carrier. That being said, I am sure there are other schools with contracts with some of the Delta carriers, just not all of them. Who knows? So the claim is probably factual but some people may interpret it incorrectly. If I were doing the marketing I would probably change a few things slightly. It's kind of like Ford saying "we make the best truck". Do they? That's their take on it. Can you challenge that factually? Not really, as "best" is different to everyone. But you can bet that no school out there is going to write a headline that says, "we are the third best school out there!"

3. As far as training and classes go it is a lot of work. During groundschool you will have three hours of class per day. On top of that you will usually fly at least once per day. Another three hours at least by the time you do preflight and debrief. On top of that you need to study. Another three to four hours per day. Total each day you should spend 8 -10 hours on school stuff. At least. Some people don't pick things up as quickly and they need more. Some a bit less.

CFI/CFII training is pretty intense also. Roughly the same schedule and you work your butt off. Those people here that I see struggling are those that don't put in the time to learning the things DCA tells them to learn. Then they complain that it is too hard or whatever. If you come here, expect it to be hard. Expect to be tired, hungry and need a good shower much of the time. Expect this to be the hardest thing you have ever done. If you do, you will be pleasantly surprised when it dosen't turn out to be quite that bad. If you come in and expect to fly once or twice and then go drink beer every night with your buddies, pick another school.

4. All of the lesson plans in the private 141 program are already made so no, you don't have to create private lessons so to speak when you are getting your CFI. You do have thirty or so ground briefs to give. This is where you plan a brief on a certain subject, say airspace for example. You will spend anywhere from two to ten hours creating your brief, then you present it to your instructor. It is a lot of work, but you tend to learn a ton when you really dig into what you are trying to teach someone.

5. Some really good guys don't get hired. For whatever reason, a few people that I thought should have been hired were not. Among them my roomate when I was a student. I am sure DCA had their reasons and only they know them. Likewise, there are instructors here now that I doubt I would have hired if I was DCA. For the most part, however, DCA does a good job of picking the right people and providing great flight training.

OK, so I am sure I have given the DCA bashers plenty of material to start flaming me. Please feel free, I can take it. If you have more specific questions ask away, I will answer them as honestly as I can.

Philip Taylor, CFII at DCA

BTW montannapilot, where do you fly out of in Portland? I lived in Vancouver, WA before I came down and flew out of Pearson. Awesome flying around those parts, I really miss the cool weather and having some mountains to look at while I am flying....
 
I am a current instructor in Sanford and completed all my training here. I did attend an FBO initially to make sure flying was going to be a career I wanted, not just a hobby, and then transfered to DCA (Comair at the time). First off, the reason I chose DCA was based on recommendations of several mainline captains I had talked to, none of which attended DCA or Comair. The reputation spoke of by individuals outside of Delta told me that the school was highly respected in the industry. Also, because of my age, I wanted to expedite my training and transition to the airlines without sacrificing quality of training (again, which was based on others recommendations, not my experience at that time.) Since attending, I can honestly say I have had a very enjoyable experience. Yes, there are some bad parts to it (not necessarily having weekends or holiday breaks or the occasional instructor who is only worried about building hours), but having been in the business world for about 10 years prior to making a career change, I am able to understand that nothing is perfect, and you have to accept the good with the bad. I wrote out a list of pros and cons, and the pros easily outweighed the cons. Guess maybe I am a glass half full person instead of half empty.
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About the classes, typically you will have ground school 5 days a week for 4 weeks. You will learn a lot in these, some of the material being "gee-whiz" info, but the ultimate purpose is FAA written test prep. I don't have specific numbers, but of the thousands of FAA tests taken the past couple years, I believe there was less than 5 who have failed, for a pass rate easily above 99%. The CFI training was the most intesive course in regards to workload, but extremely thorough. My end of course Oral exam was over 7 hours long, not for the purpose of milking me of a couple extra hundred dollars, but to make sure I was ready to teach others this material clearly and precisely. During the CFI course, you do not develop the lesson plans for any course (being an accredited school, all the lessons have been approved by the local FSDO) however you do create "briefs" in which you teach your instructor aerodynamics, maneuvers, flight physiology, etc. You also teach them how to teach and are graded accordingly on how well you are able to utilize different techniques in teaching and presentation. I personally think more emphasis should be placed on this aspect, because it is these skills that I feel make a good instructor vs. a mediocre one or even a bad one. All in all, I feel this is a great place to be. I really enjoy instructing here and the interaction with such a diverse group of people. I can honestly say that my students take the front seat to my time building (I have no problem having a more senior instructor or group leader take one of my flights to help the student in something I may be unable to), however I will not lie and say I don't look forward to the day I get in the right seat of a jet. I have friends leaving for the airlines monthly and see those who were willing to work hard and maintain a good attitude get those interviews that were promised. I also see the other end, where the school had to create another enrollment class for the month because there were so many new students attending (over 50 this past month). The program is working.
 
I m in Gresham. I got my Private at Pearson. Real nice people. Its pretty cool takin off only a few miles from PDX.

Yeah the mountains are pretty cool. Except Mt Saint Helens ash and gases are making it really really hazy right now.
 
Cool, who was your instructor there? I did most of my private with Ty Bartauski. The new chief flight instructor, Ian, did his training at DCA. Awesome guy. He's getting lots of hours the last couple days taking photographers up to get shots of the mountain.
 
LOL, trust me, I know foz and he really is a glass (at least) half full guy. Actually, more like all full, then all empty, then repeat multiple times. Ain't that right foz?
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"Is the marketing bad? In many ways I think so. I have 12 years of print advertising as my background and I would certainly do some things differently."

Okay. I nominate you to be the new DCA marketing director.

"The only real problem I have with the ads is the claim that we are the only school authorized to service the entire Delta Connections System."

Yeah. What does that statement really mean, anyway? I think they want you to think it means "we are the only school you can go to that will get you hired at the Delta Connection airlines". I think that's what a novice to the career would get out of the statement. Of course, anyone with some knowledge of the industry knows the Delta Connection airlines hire from many different backgrounds, schools, and experience levels.
 
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If you have more specific questions ask away, I will answer them as honestly as I can.

Philip Taylor, CFII at DCA


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Did you find that the instructors teaching the CFI/CFII class had a "better" attitude concerning flight instruction than some of the ones teaching the Private Pilot courses? I've read some negitive feedback about students getting instructors that really didn't care about their students, etc. What about the instructors for the Multi-Engine course?
What books do you use in the Multi-Engine and CFI/CFII courses?


Thanks for taking the time to give me such a detail look into DCA.
 
727,

no thanks on the job nomination. I quit that business so I could fly jets. I ain't going back....

dpewing,

i really didn't see that the instructors changed much as they proceeded from instrument, to private, to commercial and then to CFI/CFII. if the instructor had a bad attitude/wasn't top notch/had serious personal issues/stank (j/k)/whatever, when he started, then that was the attitude he had pretty much all the way through. DCA does a pretty good job of weeding out most of those guys. i think much of the decision of whether to hire a guy as an instructor or not comes down to, "would i like to sit in an ariplane for two hours a day with this guy if i was a student?"

i did notice that toward the end, that a couple instructors, when they got to multi, (including mine) seemed a little more like they were there just for the hours and they were just ready to get out. he was one of the few that didn't get hired after he interviewed at Comair by the way. not saying he was a bad instructor, but he could have shown a little more interest in helping me pass, and a little less in building hours. i don't really see that in any of the current guys though. at least if there are guys like that currently instructing they hide it well...

as far as books go, nothing to earth shattering there. for the multi we pretty much just used the DCA standz manual, the POH's for the seminole and the study guide we got for groundschool. the rest was the standard FAR/AIM, handbook of aeronautical knowledge etc.

for cfi there weren't too many new books either. the fundamentals of instructing was new, and at the time the arrow POH's were newto me as I did my Commercial in an 172RG, but most of the books were from the previous ratings. i did buy the Jepp flight instructor manual but I never used it much. I would not spend that money again.

hope that helps....
 
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"The only real problem I have with the ads is the claim that we are the only school authorized to service the entire Delta Connections System."

Yeah. What does that statement really mean, anyway? I think they want you to think it means "we are the only school you can go to that will get you hired at the Delta Connection airlines". I think that's what a novice to the career would get out of the statement. Of course, anyone with some knowledge of the industry knows the Delta Connection airlines hire from many different backgrounds, schools, and experience levels.

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What this statement really means is that Comair is the only one not hiring from any major academy outside the school. One of those little half truths - if Comair doesn't hire outside then they really are the only school to service the 'entire' Delta Connection system.
 
I'm currently a student at DCA. I did not choose DCA due to their advertising. I'm am with DE727UPS. I can't stand their advertising techniques. I got my private from a 141 FBO, while I was in the Navy. I checked out the school back in 2000, but decided to stay in the military longer. When my time was drawing to a close I looked up the school again and they sent me a new packet. My wife and I checked out all the info and requested to take a tour. We flew down and took the tour. I made sure to get a way from the tour and ask student and instructors how they liked DCA. What we saw and heard increased my desire to attend. The school I feel is well worth the money for me. Uncle Sam helps out quite a bit. I did start out in the regular program, but switched over to the FLEX program several months ago. I enjoy flying and learning here, thought summertime is a big bummer for flying VFR. The instructors are diverse and a great group of people. I interact with instructors more than the usual student, since I work in the schools maintenance department, so I do know a lot personally. Fabio is a great instructor. He is very knowlegeable and will help out even though he is not your instructor. I had him as my instructor in Instrument ground school. I had a blast. DCA is not for everyone. I tell people to do there homework and ask all the questions they can. They have to make sure that DCA will fit their needs for training.
 
Why not consider Mesa Pilot Devleopment?

www.flightcareers.com

They've hired every ab-initio student in the last 3 classes, I think it stands at about 85-90% hire rate overall for the life of the entire program - MUCH better than DCA if you count the students that don't 'graduate' and make it to CFI.

Also, you don't have to fly old 152s, 172s, and arrows. Training is done in the A36 Bonanza (most are newer than '91) and the multi is done in the Baron B58.

Rental rates are on par - $114/hr for the A36 and $216/hr for the baron, with $25/hr for instruction - MUCH cheaper than DCA!

Best part about Mesa is you don't have to instruct - 250 TT and right seat in a CRJ isn't a bad deal...

~wheelsup
 
"250 TT and right seat in a CRJ isn't a bad deal..."

Trust me....it's a bad deal for the Mesa Captain who has to train/babysit them for their first 300 hours or so. I've talked to my buddy who's a check airman over there. The best you have to watch like a hawk but catch on fast. The rest? I don't even want to think about it.....

Oh yeah...it's perfectly legal, blessed by the FAA, and meets Mesa's high standard of safety as shown by the way they run the rest of the operation.

250 to 300 hour pilots (except military trained) don't belong in the right seat of a jet airliner.
 
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250 to 300 hour pilots (except military trained) don't belong in the right seat of a jet airliner.

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Even military pilots don't belong there at those hours. My little bro is a harrier pilot (about 300 hours and two years) and wouldn't share nicely with a Captain after all of his single pilot ops. The Captain also wouldn't think too highly of his military pilot opinion of civilian aircraft.
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Besides, the Marines are not about to let him go for another 7 years or so.
 
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CFI/CFII training is pretty intense also. Roughly the same schedule and you work your butt off. Those people here that I see struggling are those that don't put in the time to learning the things DCA tells them to learn. Then they complain that it is too hard or whatever.

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If anyone thinks that they can go through an accelerated program and be lazy, they are in for a rude awakening. The ones that make it and are hired at any big school are the ones who work hard from day one. CFI training is too short compensate for large holes in your knowledge. If you don't learn private stuff when you are doing your private, you will not have time to do it when you are trying to learn how to teach.

And for the CFI's out there who think that they have 'made it' and can slack off, if you are not learning about jet aircraft and their operation now, you may not make it through your first ground school and sim training as a new hire.

There are people who get screwed by all the schools. Some cry about it and some go elsewhere and achieve their goals. The bottom line is if you are sharp and work hard, people will notice and good things will happen.
 
Well I just got hired as an instructor... not so long ago... I can't really comment on instructing yet as I have not done it long enough (except that I have already learned a lot by instructing) so I will only comment on the CFI/II course question.

The CFI was the most involved out of all the ratings I got at DCA, and I got them all here. The ground briefing took around 2 months. Every subject area took a few hours, some you can't complete in a single day. I managed to do them faster because I started to work on them while I did my multi which was not as involved... no FAA test etc. Everything must be covered. Little things that you would think are not important come up during the CFI ground briefs. The CFI ground course however only covers FOI and really only prepares you for the FAA writtens. By the time I was done with all the briefs and got my CFI ticket I had a large binder full as a result of all the research I had to do.

The CFI oral is anywhere from 4-6 hours long. 4 if you do good so they stop diggin...

Regardless the ads DCA does not hand out free CFI tickets I can promise that to anyone.

btw... I don't think 2-300TT RJ FOs are too good but on the other hand I don't see any European airliners falling out of the sky because of them either.
 
"2-300TT RJ FOs are too good but on the other hand I don't see any European airliners falling out of the sky because of them either."

Naw....I don't, either. Nor do I see Mesa airplanes falling out of the sky, other than the one in Charlotte and that had nothing to do with MAPD. But....

As an airline pilot who has flown jets since 1990, I stand by my statement. MAPD or Europe, super low time F/O's are a liability to the operation and the Capts have to keep a super sharp eye on them. Do planes crash? No. But it's just not right (in my opinion) to subject a line Capt to a situation where he has to deal with some 250 hour wonder. I don't care if he passed his checkride and IOE....they don't have the experience it takes to be a good jet F/O. I know how green/weak I was when I finished 757 school in March and I had close to 10 years in the right seat of a 727. I don't know....maybe my standards are too high. If I'd just lower them I'd have no problem with DCA ads and low time jet F/O's.....
 
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