"We'll try our best"

UAL747400 said:
Once every two weeks as I hate the ground ops(getting a ride to the terminal, getting a GPU, getting paperwork, ect...) and am senior enough to avoid it. Sorry man, but your airline and other US carriers are making that place worse than it used to be. I'll still wave at you though. :)

Yes, most airports don't ask your position that way, but it is a D airspace airport with no radar. It would be exactly the same in the states...
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I trained in Class D, and we used visual landmarks to announce our position to the field. If the VOR isn't on the airfield, 8 DME on the 270 and 8 DME on the 090 will make more work than "5 miles west", or @Autothrust Blue if I have this right, "Emma and Eva" for SNA. Etc...

UAL747400 said:
Yes, but all of that is in the Jepps/NOTAMS. Should be expected and I've never heard anyone get a reroute. If you did, oh no, typing!!!

I'm not defending Aruba or any of the other places that don't have pre-departure clearance or radar. It works OK when everyone's on the same page. It falls apart when they're not.

They use standard ICAO phraseology. The US does NOT
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When shall I pick up my clearance to best suit you? If the frequency is tied up, shall I wait or throw my name in the hat... I do have a scheduled operation to keep...

I've done the opposite - we sat 20 minutes in Kalamazoo MI not for flow, but instead for GA traffic to do pattern work, arrivals, and departures.
 
UAL747400 said:
-United guys are the only ones that wave back on the ramp. :)
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Another B6 guy here... We never seem to get those Aruba flights out here on the Left coast... But if I make it down there once I'm back in JFK I promise that I will always wave back.

Most likely I'll be spending a lot of time bouncing between SJU and SDQ though.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
I trained in Class D, and we used visual landmarks to announce our position to the field. If the VOR isn't on the airfield, 8 DME on the 270 and 8 DME on the 090 will make more work than "5 miles west", or @Autothrust Blue if I have this right, "Emma and Eva" for SNA. Etc...



When shall I pick up my clearance to best suit you? If the frequency is tied up, shall I wait or throw my name in the hat... I do have a scheduled operation to keep...

I've done the opposite - we sat 20 minutes in Kalamazoo MI not for flow, but instead for GA traffic to do pattern work, arrivals, and departures.
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There aren't any landmarks over the water... ;)


When they feel like giving it to you. It's not even feel. If you're unfamiliar, you call for start. They clear you for start if there is a flight plan in the system, at which point they begin coordinating. You get your clearance when the controlling agency clears you, in this case, it's Curacao. That's it. You'll get it when you get it. Sorry, I and every other pilot there is going to cuss you out off mic if we're trying to get something more important. Your clearance is less important than EVERYTHING else.
 
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ClearedForOption said:
Another B6 guy here... We never seem to get those Aruba flights out here on the Left coast... But if I make it down there once I'm back in JFK I promise that I will always wave back.

Most likely I'll be spending a lot of time bouncing between SJU and SDQ though.
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There will be an ugly tube directly in front of you after you push back. A skinny guy will be grinning and waving at you like a 4 year old. :)
 
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UAL747400 said:
There aren't any landmarks over the water... ;)
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Exactly. Why don't you jumpseat on a 320 or 190 to get a good idea of the equipment we have available to make this coveted radial/DME call. Your claim that this is standard class D procedure is exaggerated.

When they feel like giving it to you. It's not even feel. If you're unfamiliar, you call for start. They clear you for start if there is a flight plan in the system, at which point they begin coordinating. You get your clearance when the controlling agency clears you, in this case, it's Curacao. That's it. You'll get it when you get it. Sorry, I and every other pilot there is going to cuss you out off mic if we're trying to get something more important. Your clearance is less important than EVERYTHING else.
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Standard ICAO cursing phrasology? Who is the professional in these situations? Doesn't appear to be you.
 
Almost all of the 20+ Carib destinations we go to state call 10 prior to push and expect clearance on taxi out. It's not a new concept for us....

Aruba does seem slower than most getting it coordinated. Usually you're at the end of the RWY getting your clearance.

Curse all you like....Didn't know so much " important stuff" is going on at Aruba. Who knew Aruba had the air mafia ready to mic check all newcomers?!
 
Aviator Dog.jpg
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Exactly. Why don't you jumpseat on a 320 or 190 to get a good idea of the equipment we have available to make this coveted radial/DME call. Your claim that this is standard class D procedure is exaggerated.



Standard ICAO cursing phrasology? Who is the professional in these situations? Doesn't appear to be you.
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Of course standard swearing phraseology! :)

I know I'm being a bit of a jerk in this thread and I apologize. It's just getting so frustrating down there.
 
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Baronman said:
Almost all of the 20+ Carib destinations we go to state call 10 prior to push and expect clearance on taxi out. It's not a new concept for us....

Aruba does seem slower than most getting it coordinated. Usually you're at the end of the RWY getting your clearance.

Curse all you like....Didn't know so much " important stuff" is going on at Aruba. Who knew Aruba had the air mafia ready to mic check all newcomers?!
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Agreed, Aruba is slow. I think it's Curacao that takes forever to be honest. In Curacao it even takes a little time and they're sitting right next to eachother.

You have to admit that it would be annoying coming up on very short final, with no landing clearance yet, and someone asks for their clearance.
 
Chill, man! If you can show up in Narita and use the proper departure clearance request format the first time (hint: buried in pages and pages of -9s), beers are on me. Until then, as long as nobody's bending metal... :)
 
UAL747400 said:
Meh, everyone had a first time coming in here...
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Kind of the deal is, it's like that everywhere.

Folks rolling long in LGA screwing up sequencing.

Other "underdog" airlines flying into busy airports jamming up busy frequencies letting tower know "we're ready for an immediate" when there are a thousand other planes waiting to takeoff.

Me flying in Europe after only flying in Asia for 6 months. Me flying in South America after flying in Europe and Africa for 6 months. Me flying in Asia again after flying in Europe and South America for a year. Saying "please repeat" because my ear is tuned up for a different regional accent. And I forget all the localisms.

Like you said, everyone has been that guy. Lots of people take the fact the because they frequently fly somewhere, everyone else must as well. You can hear a call sign 3 times a day, but it could always be pilots that it's their first time flying in there.
 
Polar742 said:
Kind of the deal is, it's like that everywhere.

Folks rolling long in LGA screwing up sequencing.

Other "underdog" airlines flying into busy airports jamming up busy frequencies letting tower know "we're ready for an immediate" when there are a thousand other planes waiting to takeoff.

Me flying in Europe after only flying in Asia for 6 months. Me flying in South America after flying in Europe and Africa for 6 months. Me flying in Asia again after flying in Europe and South America for a year. Saying "please repeat" because my ear is tuned up for a different regional accent. And I forget all the localisms.

Like you said, everyone has been that guy. Lots of people take the fact the because they frequently fly somewhere, everyone else must as well. You can hear a call sign 3 times a day, but it could always be pilots that it's their first time flying in there.
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Your company does fine going into Maiquetia though, which is way worse than Aruba IMO.

My deal with Aruba is the obvious, to me at least, turns into a surprise to a lot of folks for some reason.

Anyone that cant tell, the first post was fueled by a lot of rum. :)
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Can't believe I wasted my time reading this nonsense.
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I don't expect much discussion after the first post at this point. I admit, was completely inappropriate. In the context of someone that had a little bit "too much fun" one night, I hope it's viewed as a bit of ribbing. Like how I rib 1900 guys. If not, oh well. What's said has been overly vocally said.

The list I posted on the previous page regarding American pilots is legitimate though. Which something I just don't see at only a handful of US carriers, including my "lowly" feeder company. If you don't see it, sorry, but American pilots with poor training(which seems to be the case at a lot of the carriers) are just plain sloppy. Phraseology and just plain LISTENING seem to be serious issues.

I just had to do a go-around on Wednesday because of an American Airlines crew not understanding "after the landing traffic, line up and wait" in Maiquetia, VZ. Yes, it is an unusual clearance, and is given in a strong Spanish accent, but it's just not confusing. Sorry...
 
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UAL747400 said:
I just had to do a go-around on Wednesday because of an American Airlines crew not understanding "after the landing traffic, line up and wait" in Maiquetia, VZ. Yes, it is an unusual clearance, and is given in a strong Spanish accent, but it's just not confusing. Sorry...
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Sounds like you're missing the real problem and blaming it on people who maybe fly into one of these airports once a month. Ever flown into ORD or LGA?
 
UAL747400 said:
I just had to do a go-around on Wednesday because of an American Airlines crew not understanding "after the landing traffic, line up and wait" in Maiquetia, VZ. Yes, it is an unusual clearance, and is given in a strong Spanish accent, but it's just not confusing. Sorry...
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Don't even know where to start on this one....

Are you not paid by the minute?

You seemed to be complaining earlier, if I'm not mistaken, that U.S. crews weren't up to speed on ICAO phraseology and standards. Now clearly you are pointing out a local controller "ism" that no pilot should consider safe. There's no such thing as, "after landing traffic line up and wait". The controller should have waited until the aircraft had passed the intersection the aircraft holding short was. End of that story.

Finally, how close were you on final? Do those controllers not understand speed differences? I was (finally) given a go around instruction in MDW coming through 50 ft RA because Southwest took a bit longer to accomplish its takeoff roll.

Just quit while you're behind. You aren't gaining any sympathy regarding non-standard operations at an airfield that pilots rarely see.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Don't even know where to start on this one....

Are you not paid by the minute?

You seemed to be complaining earlier, if I'm not mistaken, that U.S. crews weren't up to speed on ICAO phraseology and standards. Now clearly you are pointing out a local controller "ism" that no pilot should consider safe. There's no such thing as, "after landing traffic line up and wait". The controller should have waited until the aircraft had passed the intersection the aircraft holding short was. End of that story.

Finally, how close were you on final? Do those controllers not understand speed differences? I was (finally) given a go around instruction in MDW coming through 50 ft RA because Southwest took a bit longer to accomplish its takeoff roll.

Just quit while you're behind. You aren't gaining any sympathy regarding non-standard operations at an airfield that pilots rarely see.
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He didn't quote it right, but it is a very valid clearance in Europe. "Behind landing traffic, line up and wait, behind." You'd better not forget the second behind either, or you'll do it again.
 
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