UUUUUGHHHHHH today was a huge mess

[JaceTheAce]

Jace, the way you used “H***” there very much offends me...

I have to agree with CAFF here. The cockpit should be a “professional” atmosphere. I, personally, wouldn’t flip out if a student drops an occasional “f-bomb.” But, if it were said frequently there would definitely be a problem. I think it also very much depends on the student/instructor relationship as to what’s said in the cockpit. Some people get offended by things you wouldn’t imagine.

“You never get a second chance to make a good first impression”

:yeahthat: It does depend on the student/instructor relationship. What I would have a problem with is an instructor attempting to "enforce" the cussing rule in the SP&P by stating "well it is illegal to say #### according to UND SP&P 24.92.390.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 (b)(1) Sub-part (2,039)(f)". What would be more appropriate is the instructor to completely disregard that and on a personal basis convey to his/her student that they do not want to hear any cussing.

 

[undsioux1]

A) Nah, I agree it should be somewhat relaxed, but within reason.

B) Ok. Would you do that on a checkride though? Even once?

C) There are times on flights where other conversation is certainly okay to have. In the traffic pattern, however, is not the place to be shooting the breeze.

I have specifically heard of stage pilots who will unsat the student if they swear. One specific case was when the student was asked a question on FARs and couldn't remember a specific answer. The instructor let him look it up. While looking it up the student said "I hate these F$$$ing regs, theres so God D@mn many." Apparently he was doing really good, but because of that little slip-up he bombed the oral. We like to think we are training future professionals here and that is the reason for that certain policy. The occasional F-bomb in the cockpit is fine. But if it becomes habit, then you are more prone to doing it on a checkride. I had a student who every time i failed his engine would call me a SoB. Snickers had a good time with him as well. Its a big thing i had to work with him on before his stage checks. We also have many companies touring flight ops, especially now with the Asian students here. If they were to walk by a office cubicle and hear that type of language during a briefing, it just reflects badly on the school. My .02 on the issue

 

[TXaviator]

A) Nah, I agree it should be somewhat relaxed, but within reason.

B) Ok. Would you do that on a checkride though? Even once?

C) There are times on flights where other conversation is certainly okay to have. In the traffic pattern, however, is not the place to be shooting the breeze.

a) relaxed = professional but not uptight

b) i hope not to be in a situation on a checkride where i am frustrated enough to need to swear! hah!

c) agree.

 

[JaceTheAce]

I have specifically heard of stage pilots who will unsat the student if they swear. One specific case was when the student was asked a question on FARs and couldn't remember a specific answer. The instructor let him look it up. While looking it up the student said "I hate these F$$$ing regs, theres so God D@mn many." Apparently he was doing really good, but because of that little slip-up he bombed the oral. We like to think we are training future professionals here and that is the reason for that certain policy. The occasional F-bomb in the cockpit is fine. But if it becomes habit, then you are more prone to doing it on a checkride. I had a student who every time i failed his engine would call me a SoB. Snickers had a good time with him as well. Its a big thing i had to work with him on before his stage checks. We also have many companies touring flight ops, especially now with the Asian students here. If they were to walk by a office cubicle and hear that type of language during a briefing, it just reflects badly on the school. My .02 on the issue

Where in the PTS does it say "Must be able to demonstrate good use of language." ??????????????????????????

You can't fail a student for cussing. You may incomplete him and tell him to come back another day with a clean mouth, but you cannot unsat him. Either way, the student should've avoided the use of that language in a stage check.

 

[TheShocker]

Guys, it's a professionalism thing. Would you think highly of a doctor if they dropped the f-bomb around you in their office?

TheShocker: Swearing isn't about how big of a city you come from. Why would it be? You guys really need to stop making everything out to be a big city/small town pissing match.

Words like ##### and sh*t are pretty much prevalent in a bigger city than smaller town because it is part of an urban culture, its not a lie. It pretty much sucks because where I am from you are not judge by the moral police for saying those words. If my doctor was real with me and didn't mind using the f-word I would feel more comfortable as a patient. I would never once doubt his ability to perform his job, the feeling I get with many of the "professional" doctors. I think some folks need to get over their bias for those who use the f-word. Its very similiar to, "oh he is black so I wouldn't trust him flying the airplane. they be shooting folks and cussing on bet."

 

[venezuelana]

a) call scheduling and have them add you. its a stage. theyll override you for whatever time you want.



dont waste money on review flights. STUDY. hell, ESPECIALLY with stage 14 theres NOTHING you need the plane to practice on, load up flight sim and go at it. chair fly. read and re-read. a review flight for stage 14 is a waste of time and money.



lose the girlfriend.

there is, and always will be others. school should be your priority for now. buck up, hit the books, and finish. then you can have time for whatever romantic stuff you want. or find a girl here, theres some out-of-state/international ones that aint too bad. (obviously stay away from the local livestock)



if you wanted a fast track, go to ATP. myself, and most others here came here to kill two birds with one stone (degree and ratings simulaneously...on student loans! ;-))



getting stopped or held up for a week or two, even more, happens once in a while. theres NO reason however that theres weeks between EVERY lesson. make an effort to get out there and fly ANY time possible and you can do it. so far, taking breaks to go see girlfriend or whatever doesn't really convince me you're trying to take every possibility to get your flying in.



good luck, pass the stages on the first attempt, and study study study study study. theres no reason to unsat/repeat lessons.

this is by far THE BEST post I have ever read on JC.:nana2:
Perfectly articulated.

shout out to all the non-locals

 

[undsioux1]

Where in the PTS does it say "Must be able to demonstrate good use of language." ??????????????????????????

You can't fail a student for cussing. You may incomplete him and tell him to come back another day with a clean mouth, but you cannot unsat him. Either way, the student should've avoided the use of that language in a stage check.

It was a 102 stage check. the first two stages have Policies and Procedures in the required areas to be quizzed. If the student swears, they are in violation of SOPs. Done deal.

 

[Tommay85]

Yeah, if he swore in that exact context, I'd have a problem with it. I don't think I would unsat them though. I'm not sure if I'd even incomplete them.

I don't usually swear in the airplane and if I do at worst it's "damn". It takes a lot more than that to get me worked up that much in an airplane. "Damn" or "crap" sometimes "jesus" are my casual swear words. haha

 

[AngelFuree]

True story:
During 102 training, I'd use "Jeeeeeeesus, I'm too high" or "Jesus Christ, that was a bad landing!"
I didn't realize how religious some people were around here, and as such, it so happens during our debrief, my instructor asked me to stop using "Jesus." He told me it was a personal thing of his, and that it bothered him everytime he would hear the word being used in vain. So I respected his wishes because he asked me nicely as a personal favor and stopped using it, but that opened up my eyes as to how far people can get. egh!

True story two:
I unsatted one time in the easiest stage check on Earth: the 221/27 oral. I was so frustrated w/ myself that I used the word "sh.t!" when I failed it. He was NOT happy about it, but I admire him for handling it professionally because he didn't show any disgust. However, he did complain to my instructor and she was ANGRY at me for that LOL. I still remember her reaction. She was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mad.

 

[Tommay85]

True story two:
I unsatted one time in the easiest stage check on Earth: the 221/27 oral. I was so frustrated w/ myself that I used the word "sh.t!" when I failed it. He was NOT happy about it, but I admire him for handling it professionally because he didn't show any disgust. However, he did complain to my instructor and she was ANGRY at me for that LOL. I still remember her reaction. She was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mad.

One of my friends got his butt absolutely chewed off. He couldn't fly much during one two week period because he needed to work to get some more funds in the bank. His instructor started hasling him about it and he told his instructor "look, I have to work to pay you!" His instructor took him into a briefing room and flipped out. I'll have to go against the instructor in this situation and agree with my friend. I wouldn't have been so blunt about it though. It annoys me to death when I'm ahead of template and want to take a couple days to do other things resulting in getting hassled all the time. I see how the instructor feels, but at the same time, when you're ahead, who cares. Should have saved that money he was getting from me when we were going balls to the wall.

 

[ZUKO]

Okay now I am kind of upset. No one told me that Stage Checks take priority over flights. When I talked to my stage check pilot, he made it sound like there was nothing we can do till Tuesday because there we no planes available on Saturday or Sunday. And because of his classes on Monday. Sounds like he just didnt want to help me or didnt know we had priority. So I could have flown this weekend. I wish I found out that I could basically get any time I wanted earlier.

I never planned on getting into a long distance relatioinship and in 99 out of 100 cases I would never do it. Do to the nature of our relationship I can not just break up with her to focus on school. She is not just your normal girl friend. She means a ton too me and we want to be with each other for a long time. She is basically willing to transfer wherever I end up going next year and I cant just get rid of her. That tells you a lot in my opinion.

ATP yuck. I dont want a fast track at the sacrifice of standards. The breaks at North Dakota that I am talking about are just the breaks with any college. Summer breaks. Spring breaks. Yes you have the option of not taking them but once your course ends, your course ends.

Since I am a retake student I have to be done with my flying by March 31st. So I am going to have to take a month break from flying till school ends. I hate that.

People come to UND because you can get a degree while flying. But the degree is about as worthless as a degree as you can get. (commecial aviation) You can go get all your ratings and your degree at the same time through a stage college too. And you can get all your ratings and become a CFI in far less time and less cost. While UND is not a bad school, It is not for me.

I dont want to only fly 2-3 times a week(if weather is good) until I finish the course and then wait till next semester to determine when I fly. I do not want the constant breaks.

I want a place where I can go fly at least 5 times a week consistently where I am always gaining experience. Everytime I am not flying I always wish I could get back in the air as soon as possible.

How am I looking for a March 31st finish date? I have to take Presidents Weekend off because its my birthday. I really want to cancel that trip but cant. But I am staying for Spring Break. I have been as proactive as possible.

a) call scheduling and have them add you. its a stage. theyll override you for whatever time you want.



dont waste money on review flights. STUDY. hell, ESPECIALLY with stage 14 theres NOTHING you need the plane to practice on, load up flight sim and go at it. chair fly. read and re-read. a review flight for stage 14 is a waste of time and money.



lose the girlfriend.

there is, and always will be others. school should be your priority for now. buck up, hit the books, and finish. then you can have time for whatever romantic stuff you want. or find a girl here, theres some out-of-state/international ones that aint too bad. (obviously stay away from the local livestock)



if you wanted a fast track, go to ATP. myself, and most others here came here to kill two birds with one stone (degree and ratings simulaneously...on student loans! ;-))



getting stopped or held up for a week or two, even more, happens once in a while. theres NO reason however that theres weeks between EVERY lesson. make an effort to get out there and fly ANY time possible and you can do it. so far, taking breaks to go see girlfriend or whatever doesn't really convince me you're trying to take every possibility to get your flying in.



good luck, pass the stages on the first attempt, and study study study study study. theres no reason to unsat/repeat lessons.

 

[Tommay85]

Just make sure you look really carefully at whatever you're gona transfer into. FBOs can have the same scheduling issues, if not far worse due to the the typical small size of the majority of FBO fleets. To be honest, you're 1 of 4 people I've seen in this entire program the 3 years I've been here that's had this much trouble. The problem might just be that 141 style training just isn't for you.

Make sure you look at cost really closely too. When I decided on UND, it was FAR cheaper than going to any state college in Iowa and going to an FBO. Tuition, once you become a resident, practically free. I would have spent an additional 30,000 doing the normal state college/FBO route. You're also gona be required to have more hours of flight time to get your ratings at an FBO compared UND and other 141 schools(I have no knowlege on any other 141 schools hour requirements, just that UND's are MUCH lower). That costs a lot more money. That was where the majority of this additional 30,000 came from in my case.

The only course so far that I felt was a waste of money has been CFI so far. 7,000 for CFI!?!?! That's rediculous!!!!

I just want to point this out to you so that you don't end up spending more money and going through more frustration. I've been through both the FBO and 141 environment. Up to multi-engine, UND is still much cheaper than a majority of the FBOs out there. I kinda wish I would have just gone somewhere else for CFI, and CFII. It's a waste of money here.

 

[ZUKO]

Yeah I will. I basically just want to fly more per week and get all my ratings faster. The school that I am transfering to costs more per year then UND. How much? It will depends if I can secure in state tuition. My dad is retired and they live part time in Washington State and Arizona. I also have held a full time job in Arizona over winter break. So I am not sure if that will play any part to it. How ever, I will not have to attend 5 years to get a Finance degree like I would if I would stay at UND to get a Finance and Commercial Aviation degree.

While over all cost is a factor, my main priority is education quality and time.

I am also considering taking summer classes at a community college to help make up some credits that I will lose by transfering.

This is pretty much my last time to get out. If you were in my situation, and wanted to fly more per week, get all your ratings faster, start becoming a CFI faster, at a comparable cost would you leave?

Just make sure you look really carefully at whatever you're gona transfer into. FBOs can have the same scheduling issues, if not far worse due to the the typical small size of the majority of FBO fleets. To be honest, you're 1 of 4 people I've seen in this entire program the 3 years I've been here that's had this much trouble. The problem might just be that 141 style training just isn't for you.

Make sure you look at cost really closely too. When I decided on UND, it was FAR cheaper than going to any state college in Iowa and going to an FBO. Tuition, once you become a resident, practically free. I would have spent an additional 30,000 doing the normal state college/FBO route. You're also gona be required to have more hours of flight time to get your ratings at an FBO compared UND and other 141 schools(I have no knowlege on any other 141 schools hour requirements, just that UND's are MUCH lower). That costs a lot more money. That was where the majority of this additional 30,000 came from in my case.

The only course so far that I felt was a waste of money has been CFI so far. 7,000 for CFI!?!?! That's rediculous!!!!

I just want to point this out to you so that you don't end up spending more money and going through more frustration. I've been through both the FBO and 141 environment. Up to multi-engine, UND is still much cheaper than a majority of the FBOs out there. I kinda wish I would have just gone somewhere else for CFI, and CFII. It's a waste of money here.

 

[MrLeisure757]

Just throwing it out there to anyone - Where's the rush to get to a job so quick?

 

[TXaviator]

Just throwing it out there to anyone - Where's the rush to get to a job so quick?

no kidding.

 

[airplanerik]

Just throwing it out there to anyone - Where's the rush to get to a job so quick?

yeah, i don't get it either!
should we just call it africa-itis??

 

[Wild_Weasel]

Yeah, I can't imagine that transferring to ASU is really going to be an end-all solution to how you'll get through training faster. If you're concerned about having a "worthless" aviation degree then try double majoring in something else; but, I wouldn't leave just because you're not flying 9 times per week and might have to spend an extra semester here to graduate.

And also, uhh, how is it possible for you to only have just finished lesson 14 if you started last fall?!?! I mean, sure, there might have been a few delays with weather and your CFI, but geeezzz; it sounds like you might be the one with the issues, not the UND system.

 

[JaceTheAce]

Just throwing it out there to anyone - Where's the rush to get to a job so quick?

Yeah I always wondered that. After graduating in May I'm heading back home to do CFI/II, plan on instructing, then staying there for a while to enjoy flight instructing... I've always wondered why everyone's in a hurry to get "that airline job." I think people should concentrate on enjoying the stepping stones along the way to their "dream job".

 

[TXaviator]

Yeah, I can't imagine that transferring to ASU is really going to be an end-all solution to how you'll get through training faster. If you're concerned about having a "worthless" aviation degree then try double majoring in something else; but, I wouldn't leave just because you're not flying 9 times per week and might have to spend an extra semester here to graduate.

And also, uhh, how is it possible for you to only have just finished lesson 14 if you started last fall?!?! I mean, sure, there might have been a few delays with weather and your CFI, but geeezzz; it sounds like you might be the one with the issues, not the UND system.

my roommate started 102 last fall also and is working on lesson 13.

but then again, he enjoys taking unplanned weeklong trips to texas, etc etc etc

ie - he's on 13 because he isnt trying / doesnt give a damn anymore

however, he has been weathered his last 8 launches. oh and mx once too.

 

[the_dmn8tr]

Yeah I always wondered that. After graduating in May I'm heading back home to do CFI/II, plan on instructing, then staying there for a while to enjoy flight instructing... I've always wondered why everyone's in a hurry to get "that airline job." I think people should concentrate on enjoying the stepping stones along the way to their "dream job".

You mean people should have fun and enjoy their youth before a low paying regional job?!?!?!

I call shenanigans!!!!!!!!