US Airways pilots' seniority disputes may muddle merger
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Not very smart thinking. Guess what would happen if we did that? I'm guessing some smartass would buy the address and put up a picture of the everglades crash for all eternity.
Business basics: always be in control your brand image.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Nick
Well-Known Member
Which is why I said it's about controlling a web domain, and then he quoted me and took it out of context, and then brought it up again, and you now brought it back up to him again, and now I see, after paying very little attention to it in the past, what people are talking about with this person.
It's like talking to a wall.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Not really a burn. In restrospect, the Valujet thing was wrong and I apologize to ATN pilot for that. That said, Jet U was a scam, I'll admit that. I just got lucky it worked out for me but many others were not so fortunate. There are some true money sucking snakes in the world.
TheFlyingTurkey
Fetus Worshiper
Why is merging pilot seniority lists always so controversial? It seems like a simple math solution to me.
Pilot A at America West was hired on July 01, 1989.
Pilot B at US Air was hired on August 01, 1989.
Companies merge in 2005.
Pilot A has more seniority.
Why do pilots confuse such simple math?
Pilot A at America West was hired on July 01, 1989.
Pilot B at US Air was hired on August 01, 1989.
Companies merge in 2005.
Pilot A has more seniority.
Why do pilots confuse such simple math?
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Where do you put furlough pilots in that mix? A big issue with the NIC is the hit a lot of furloughees took. Not arguing either side but that seems to be a large sticky point.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That is the sole reason that PSA and PDT are running around with the names they are.
RRPower
Well-Known Member
They remained furloughed until such time that a recall ensues, at which time they are brought back at date of hire where they fall on the list. I don't agree that they should come back and you furlough the new junior person because it wasn't their airline's fault that caused the furlough. With that being said, they come back at whatever position is open (no bumbling anyone out of a seat) and then as realignments or vacancies open up, they can bid what their original DOH can hold. Tell me how that is worse than what they have done until now.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
They bidding what their DOH can hold is the issue I think. You know as well as I do that bidding is done by seniority and a lot can happen by just a few numbers. I don't have a dog in that fight and I think both sides have handled it poorly. They have left millions if not billions on the table because of it. I'm just asking the question to the question because I don't think it's that simple.
RRPower
Well-Known Member
Well for example, when my airline furloughed, there was one senior captain who took a voluntary furlough to seek out other flying. He could not return until we started recalling, and when it came time to recall, it was only for FO spots. Well he sat about 6 months as an FO at topped out FO pay until a CA vacancy came out. He then went and took a CA PC and went back to being number 10 or whatever it was making his high CA pay. That's what I mean. I know some don't like it, but to me, that is as fair as it gets. I never think it's fair to bump someone out of their seat just because someone is more senior. I think there has to be a vacancy for that seat and if you can hold it, then you get it. That's my opinion.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Our voluntary furlough's were slotted straight back into the old position. Nobody was bumped out of anything, people just moved down numbers.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Taking a voluntary is a lot different then taking an involuntary for reasons you stated above.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Longevity does not equal seniority.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Bingo. The issue is that the airline with all the pilots on furlough is not bringing active pilot slots to the merger. Therefore if it is a DOH merger, the pilots on furlough get a huge windfall over the airline without pilots on furlough since they get credit for seniority that they did not bring to the table.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Ok, now onsider AWA started in the 80s, and only a small handful of their pilots were hired in the 80s. Compare that to US Airways, which through mergers and acquisitions has been around for decades and at the time of the merger in 2005, the most junior active US Airways pilots were literally guys hired in the late 80s or early 90s. In your DOH scenario, the majority of AWA pilots would be stapled under US Airways pilots, and current AWA Captains would be downgraded.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Who was born yesterday?
TheFlyingTurkey
Fetus Worshiper
Uh? It's all about the hire date right? That's how seniority is determined. Or am I missing something? Are there multiple seniority lists at an airline that has never had a merger? Are the lists based on something other than seniority? You're confusing me.
TheFlyingTurkey
Fetus Worshiper
Okay I'm with you so far.
Okay so some Airways guys were hired around the same time as some AWA guys. I'm still with you.
That would be fair. It sucks but its fair.
I mean, why would a pilot hired at Airways in 1995, be allowed to have a higher seniority number than a AWA guy hired in 1988 if the companies merge? That's not fair.