United Pulling out of Dubai

[derg]

Truly one of the finest snacks devised by humanity.

I've got a cupboard full of those things from my international days. They're probably devolved in some primordial "goo" but they're alright.

Now the real tasty things with coffee are these from the grocery stores in Europe:

Not necessarily that brand, but man, a couple of those things, some good coffee… Hell man, close the blinds and turn down the lights, it's going to get crazy.

And weird.

*shudder*

 

[NickH]

My Soggy Bourbon upbringing has left me unprepared.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Well, considering that the total debt accumulated during the merger was around $20 billion, and they've paid it down to around $5-7 billion, I'd say "NOPE! You're wrong."

Any of 'em. Point is the airlines shouldn't have to answer to why the fares are the way they are and not coming down just because oil came down. They have debt and obligations to pay. Plus, does the average traveling John Doe even realize what ticket prices used to be and how adjusted for inflation how they would be today? People should be thankful.

 

[derg]

Well, it's not a "road trip". If gas were free, the air fares wouldn't be.

John Q Public doesn't understand that if gas were free, to drive from Phoenix to Los Angeles would still cost money.

 

[wheelsup]

I think the US carriers need to realize a couple things and have a come to Jesus moment.

Take a look at Emirates 2015 route map:

• Dubai has a competitive advantage when it comes to its geographical location connecting traffic from the US/Europe to the ME, India and China.
• India is the fastest growing middle class in the world, and accounts for a significant portion of the gulf carriers traffic. US carriers aren't in a position to connect India with the rest of the world.
• The US carriers are more focused on connecting domestic traffic with international destinations (say Providence, RI to Paris) while Emirates is focused on connecting big cities to big cities exclusively. Basically the SWA model on an international scale.
• The US government uses aviation as a piggy bank where they keep adding taxes upon taxes to airfares and even using that money to fund other transportation projects such as highways.
• The US carriers are earning about 2x-4x more in net profit than Emirates yet are more concerned about short term investor profit than long term investment in their product and services.
• Quite frankly I don't really think the US carriers can compete with Emirates connecting world traffic. If anyone could, it would be Delta and they haven't given it a go so that tells me about all I need to know about that.
• The first larger domestic US carrier to partner with Emirates will slowly take over the US aviation market (cough SWA). I'm interested to see how jetBlue will grow into their codeshare.
• As much as it would hinder our international growth, it would be awesome if AA partnered with them and made DFW into a mega international hub. That being said, they've already pissed them off so the horse is out of the barn on that one.
• @typhoonpilot

 

[AAPalmTree]

I'm sure I've posted this before but not quite. I had a 63 year old United new hire in my JS that was fresh out of the sand box as a 8 year 777 Captain at Emirates. Quite eye opening, think about that. Left there as a Captain to be a UA new hire. We also hired quite a few EK and Qatar pilots at my last regional job. They went to a regional just to escape.

A 3rd year legacy FO makes in the same ballpark as a top of the scale A380 Captain at EK.

 

[wheelsup]

A 3rd year legacy FO makes in the same ballpark as a top of the scale A380 Captain at EK.

Very few airline jobs even come close to US legacy rates which tells me we are overpaid relative to our peers.

A higher paid person can be rationalized if they are more productive. Are we that much more productive than our peers overseas? Doubtful, if anything we are less productive.

 

[BobDDuck]

Very few airline jobs even come close to US legacy rates which tells me we are overpaid relative to our peers.

Ummm. Nope. I think the words you are looking for are: unionized labor.

 

[AAPalmTree]

Very few airline jobs even come close to US legacy rates which tells me we are overpaid relative to our peers.

A higher paid person can be rationalized if they are more productive. Are we that much more productive than our peers overseas? Doubtful, if anything we are less productive.

I hope you're not a voting member at my airline.

 

[wheelsup]

I hope you're not a voting member at my airline.

We can't be upset about lower cost companies under bidding us then brag how much more we make.

As good as it feels to beat your chest, it's just not logical.

America in past history has enjoyed such a better standard of living because our workers are more productive than our peers allowing us to be paid more.

The level of productivity is the single most important determinant of a country’s standard of living

http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_archive_03222000/

 

[RetiredATLATC]

you will be "The Help" in perpetuity.

Doug, I respect the hell out of you, but you're kidding yourself if you don't that that this is all we are to any employer, foreign or domestic.

 

[AAPalmTree]

We can't be upset about lower cost companies under bidding us then brag how much more we make.

As good as it feels to beat your chest, it's just not logical.

America in past history has enjoyed such a better standard of living because our workers are more productive than our peers allowing us to be paid more.

"Lower cost" as in subsidized? Now subsidized by our govt?

 

[derg]

Doug, I respect the hell out of you, but you're kidding yourself if you don't that that this is all we are to any employer, foreign or domestic.

However, I do have rights, due process and a constitution here in the US without fear of deportation.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

However, I do have rights, due process and a constitution here in the US without fear of deportation.

Not if the Trump voters get their way!

#becausetheyreracist

 

[MikeD]

Not if the Trump voters get their way!

#becausetheyreracist

How are US citizens going to get deported? That's a new one....

 

[Skåning]

A 3rd year legacy FO makes in the same ballpark as a top of the scale A380 Captain at EK.

Not true at all, nice try though

 

[Seggy]

Not true at all, nice try though

Sure about that?

 

[mrivc211]

Sucked more than being your copilot at least, right?

France is an amazing country, Air France flies a lot of great aircraft, they pay their pilots more than their US counterparts and have a retirement. I even speak semi-conversational French but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell I'd go expat to do that because I'm always going to be the "hired help" and gangs of French-national copilots are going to treat me as if I shouldn't be there.

Now replace "France" with "United Arab Emirates".

No matter how vast that compound is, you're never going to be one of them and you will be "The Help" in perpetuity.

Dude, you just described Skywest.

 

[typhoonpilot]

A 3rd year legacy FO makes in the same ballpark as a top of the scale A380 Captain at EK.

I didn't really want to post in this thread, but when something so glaringly wrong gets posted it has to be refuted with facts.

A top of the scale line captain at Emirates (fleet doesn't matter because all pay is based on longevity) will make total cash compensation in the ballpark of $15,000/month. That wouldn't be the whole story though. They may take an additional $4000/month in housing allowance. Then there is the tax rate, which is zero in the UAE so all that money is take home unless the captain in question is a U.S. citizen in which case it works out to around 10-15% in taxes. Tell me how a third year F.O. at American is taking home $19,000/month after taxes.


Typhoonpilot

 

[learhawkerbe400]

Very few airline jobs even come close to US legacy rates which tells me we are overpaid relative to our peers.

A higher paid person can be rationalized if they are more productive. Are we that much more productive than our peers overseas? Doubtful, if anything we are less productive.

Very few posts of yours don't make me depressed.