United Pulling out of Dubai

[z987k]

Serious question, did you guys think that just because we aren't at the commuters anymore we were home free? Did you think there was no more bidding for RFP's going on?

There still is, except it's being done by passengers and not the regional "partners".

When you look at all these surveys done, about who people like to fly on, AA is near the bottom. So is UAL. In 2014's global ranking, only one US carrier was top 50 and it was Delta, at 49. AA was 89. Eagle was ranked higher!!

Domestically, no one actually wants to fly on AA. Most actually want to fly on jetBlue, SWA,or Virgin. JetBlue showed +14% increase in passenger traffic in Nov, we showed +4%. People want to fly jetBlue. Because they have a known product, of good quality. Nobody wants to fly AA. I'm sorry but we suck. Our product is piss poor. We have no moat. We blend in with all the rest where people search and rank by price only, and that forces us to compete with ULCC's while our cost structure is that of a network carrier. Spirit's ASM costs are less than half of ours.

We have no consistent product. Despite what Parker said about Delta buying the 717's it was a move by Delta to control their brand. Parker is JV, he has no clue about this stuff. This is one of the main reasons Delta can command a +15% premium on their seats. Delta mostly attributes this to their corporate clientele and their reliability, which they can control more readily the more flying their actually do.

UAL has some issues. They have an amazing network but no one home at the helm. I like AA more than I like UAL.

The US airline industry is like the cell phone industry. It's completely saturated and companies are only gaining customers by churning.

I'd agree with this. I'm not sure who I hate to be on more, AA or UAL. Probably UAL because they can't be on time for anything in the world AND their product sucks. Barring a seat in business, I'd much rather be on JetBlue or Virgin. Their product is better. They just don't have the route structure. I won't touch Spirit with a 20ft pole.
I'm a big fan of Alaska and Delta's product. Now if only Delta would let me do ticket changes like Alaska does.

 

[Kingairer]

Serious question, did you guys think that just because we aren't at the commuters anymore we were home free? Did you think there was no more bidding for RFP's going on?

There still is, except it's being done by passengers and not the regional "partners".

Home free? No of course we've all been in the industry long enough and have seen what can happen. But I am to the point that I will put all of my effort into making this airline the best I can, because I plan on being here another 30 years. I also plan on not spending 30 years looking over at the green grass on the other side of fences.

When you look at all these surveys done, about who people like to fly on, AA is near the bottom. So is UAL. In 2014's global ranking, only one US carrier was top 50 and it was Delta, at 49. AA was 89. Eagle was ranked higher!!

Look at how many changes AA has been through in the last 2 years. Itll take time for those upgrades to all start paying dividends. No one like a carrier who is going through a merger, and considering that, I think AA has done an excellent job. The product of all legacy carriers is improving. As we move away from just trying to keep the lights on, and actually reinvesting into infrastructure and into the product the ULCCs and legacy experience will differentiate. Someone may not want to fly on AA but when they want to go at 2pm and the LCCs flight left at 10am or later a 10pm, they do choose AA. When they need a flight from Greenville, NC to LAX, they do chose AA.

We have no consistent product. Despite what Parker said about Delta buying the 717's it was a move by Delta to control their brand. Parker is JV, he has no clue about this stuff. This is one of the main reasons Delta can command a +15% premium on their seats. Delta mostly attributes this to their corporate clientele and their reliability, which they can control more readily the more flying their actually do.

We don't have a consistent product but that is changing as airplanes go and get upgraded and consistent interior layouts. Although the two airlines route network complimented each well the two products were different. AA a fading legacy carrier and USAir a redeveloped LCC. The fleet gets newer everyday, (obviously not a great thing for us), but in the next couple of years, if you're flying on American there is a great chance you're flying a newish aircraft. Parker has always had a hard on for RJs which is a problem, but I wouldn't say the mgmt. team is JV. Still a long way to go for the trust to be built up between work groups and management going forward, I know I'm not there yet.
I know none of this is news to you, but hopefully it shines a more positive light on a subject that you see negatively.

 

[AAPalmTree]

Serious question, did you guys think that just because we aren't at the commuters anymore we were home free? Did you think there was no more bidding for RFP's going on?

There still is, except it's being done by passengers and not the regional "partners".

When you look at all these surveys done, about who people like to fly on, AA is near the bottom. So is UAL. In 2014's global ranking, only one US carrier was top 50 and it was Delta, at 49. AA was 89. Eagle was ranked higher!!

Domestically, no one actually wants to fly on AA. Most actually want to fly on jetBlue, SWA,or Virgin. JetBlue showed +14% increase in passenger traffic in Nov, we showed +4%. People want to fly jetBlue. Because they have a known product, of good quality. Nobody wants to fly AA. I'm sorry but we suck. Our product is piss poor. We have no moat. We blend in with all the rest where people search and rank by price only, and that forces us to compete with ULCC's while our cost structure is that of a network carrier. Spirit's ASM costs are less than half of ours.

We have no consistent product. Despite what Parker said about Delta buying the 717's it was a move by Delta to control their brand. Parker is JV, he has no clue about this stuff. This is one of the main reasons Delta can command a +15% premium on their seats. Delta mostly attributes this to their corporate clientele and their reliability, which they can control more readily the more flying their actually do.

UAL has some issues. They have an amazing network but no one home at the helm. I like AA more than I like UAL.

The US airline industry is like the cell phone industry. It's completely saturated and companies are only gaining customers by churning.

Two things.
No, I don't think we're home free. I actually find more value in my job and I am more worried about keeping it than at the regional level.
Second, it really doesn't come down to who wants to fly on who (except for a small segment delta has cornered domestically). It mostly comes down to ticket price. Doug and AA (for me anyway) are doing well with this fact.

 

[learhawkerbe400]

If wheelsup was @
FedEx/UPS: oh man 3D printers, mode shift, Amazon's developing their own delivery subsidiary, cargo drones, flying at night kills you!!

Southwest: Oh man the upgrade is forever, I don't want to fly a 737 my whole career, we don't have long-haul routes/planes, pax hate cattle car boarding!

Delta: our JVs are the next RJ debacle, we have way too many fleet types to be efficient, I hate double breasted!!

JetBlue/spirit/virgin: we don't make what our legacy counterparts do, the legacies could crush us anytime, we have no merger/scope protection!!

Emirates: the sand box sucks, 100 hours of ULR a month is killing me, I can't wait to go back to the states, we don't make as much as our American/European legacy counterparts!

Point being every place has their issues. If you get squeamish thinking about what might happen or focus on what's wrong with your carrier you'll go insane. We all have it pretty damn good at the majors and we need to do our best to make it better and make sure we all have these high paying jobs well into the future.

Not ragging on wheels up, just think you sometimes can't see the forest from the trees, or however that saying goes.

 

[Seggy]

APC is wrong Seggy.

Why don't you post the complete pay scales then?

My base pay when I left, and I was not at the top of the scale, was $12,500/month. Add flight pay of $1500 and it was $14,000/month and I'm not including another $2750/month for examiner override.. That was two years ago and since then there have been upward adjustments to the scale. So my $15,000 figure for top of scale might be a little low actually.

Still horribly low compared to what you can make here in the states flying those hours. Also, I thought anything above $97,000 or so was taxed as an ex-pat?

 

[typhoonpilot]

Why don't you post the complete pay scales then?

Still horribly low compared to what you can make here in the states flying those hours. Also, I thought anything above $97,000 or so was taxed as an ex-pat?

I don't have the full scale and APC never changed them years ago when I did send them one.

You say "horribly low compared to the U.S." but it's important to check what is left over at the end of the month after taxes and expenses. One $15,000/month job can be completely different than another in that regard. It's not that difficult for some captains to save up to $100,000/year in the UAE, not including their Provident fund. Can a third year legacy F.O. do that?

Taxes are complex. The foreign earned income exclusion ($100,800 for 2015) is only part of the equation, you still have all your other deductions.


TP

 

[Kingairer]

I don't care if they were clearing 400,000k a year, no way am I packing up the kids and moving to the Middle East. (Not directed at you typhoon). I'd rather sell insurance.

 

[mrivc211]

I don't care if they were clearing 400,000k a year, no way am I packing up the kids and moving to the Middle East. (Not directed at you typhoon). I'd rather sell insurance.

I spent 4 months a year there from 1987-1999 and have visited twice a year since, my dad flew for them and was one of the original 60 hired, meaning I am very familiar with what I would have living there and I still preferred to live in the US. Dubai is not for everyone but it does have its benefits. When its all said and done, I didn't want to move to Dubai, only to be flying around the globe for 90 hours a month. I never saw myself being able to settled down and find a nice girl. And had I had a family, I'd never want to strand them in a place where they never grew up, have no friends, and don't enjoy. I grew up there so its different for me.