United has some splainin to do…

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That’s not what I said.

There are qualitative and quantitative aspects of evaluating a pilot.

Chuck Yeager had a lot of flight time and fantastic flying skills. Quantitatively superior. Qualitatively inferior because of his interpersonal skills.

Keanu Reeves is probably the most empathetic, nicest person on earth, judging from his interactions with the public. Let’s just call him Qualitatively superior because of his social skills, reasoning and personality. Quantitatively inferior because he has little, if any, flying experience.

Both have zero business in the cockpit of an A320 in an airline operation. Put them both together and it’s even worse from a human factors standpoint.

There’s no shortages of posts like these, which can only be taken one way…

Volunteering is gooooood.

Volunteering for ALPA is greeeeeeeeat.

Sitting on your rump in the left seat, doing nothing else, slowly balding and bitching that you don't have melanin or boobs and that's why the phone isn't ringing is baaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

“Sitting left seat and doing nothing else”

That’s what’s wrong with this industry.


I currently sit left seat, am starting to bald, and do nothing. Doesn’t make me a bad person. Nor should it make me someone who just gets looked over, if I was trying to apply elsewhere.


The implication being a guy in the left seat already has an ATP, Jet time, and TPIC time, so now that he feels like he’s at a point in his career where he should be getting called, but instead is not, and getting miserable while watching his FOs get hired who may very well be women or minorities?


Yeah, I can see how that might chap some people.

I understand the problem… “well everyone else has an ATP, Jet time, and flight time, so how do we pick out more selectively?”

I’m no expert. But if I was a legacy recruiter, I’d probably put more weight in a guy flying a 737 or a 320 (or any similar planes at said legacy). There’s easier ways to weed out the pool for more competitive pilots without the fluffy crap.







And I’ll be honest, I think it was BS that I got called to my shop in Dec 2011 as a RJ FO with 0 TPIC. I mean of course I took the interview, and once hired, accepted the job. But I acknowledged that I was waaaay under qualified compared to the competition. Just pure dumb sheer luck is my guess to what happened. Cause I’m gonna level with you, I didn’t do any habitat for humanity or soup kitchen work. I was flying 1,000/hrs a year at my regional to boost the flight time and resume, and then spending my off time at home with the family. Call me a quite quitter when it comes to this volunteer strictly for a job interview BS. If I find something to volunteer for, I want it to be passion-based. Not half ass faking it to check a box to make some recruiter happy.


Real talk, being a capped 13th yr guy who isn’t playing that game anymore. That’s the thing now being the outsider and looking inside to the process, it’s easier to call the BS out. If there could be a consequence-free world, I would pay to see an episode of “what airline pilot applicants truly think of their interview process and required preparation.”

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

is this no longer the case?


bet you $5 the industry is closer to another Colgan than you think it is.

I don’t doubt it. Except this time, I fear the accident will be at a major/legacy level. One of the problems at my regional was bad ADM from people who basically came in as DEC with limited experience. Bring street CAs at DAL and UA, you’re starting to see those effects too.

 

[nc1982]

There’s no shortages of posts like these, which can only be taken one way…





“Sitting left seat and doing nothing else”

That’s what’s wrong with this industry.


I currently sit left seat, am starting to bald, and do nothing. Doesn’t make me a bad person. Nor should it make me someone who just gets looked over, if I was trying to apply elsewhere.


The implication being a guy in the left seat already has an ATP, Jet time, and TPIC time, so now that he feels like he’s at a point in his career where he should be getting called, but instead is not, and getting miserable while watching his FOs get hired who may very well be women or minorities?


Yeah, I can see how that might chap some people.

I understand the problem… “well everyone else has an ATP, Jet time, and flight time, so how do we pick out more selectively?”

I’m no expert. But if I was a legacy recruiter, I’d probably put more weight in a guy flying a 737 or a 320 (or any similar planes at said legacy). There’s easier ways to weed out the pool for more competitive pilots without the fluffy crap.







And I’ll be honest, I think it was BS that I got called to my shop in Dec 2011 as a RJ FO with 0 TPIC. I mean of course I took the interview, and once hired, accepted the job. But I acknowledged that I was waaaay under qualified compared to the competition. Just pure dumb sheer luck is my guess to what happened. Cause I’m gonna level with you, I didn’t do any habitat for humanity or soup kitchen work. I was flying 1,000/hrs a year at my regional to boost the flight time and resume, and then spending my off time at home with the family. Call me a quite quitter when it comes to this volunteer strictly for a job interview BS. If I find something to volunteer for, I want it to be passion-based. Not half ass faking it to check a box to make some recruiter happy.


Real talk, being a capped 13th yr guy who isn’t playing that game anymore. That’s the thing now being the outsider and looking inside to the process, it’s easier to call the BS out. If there could be a consequence-free world, I would pay to see an episode of “what airline pilot applicants truly think of their interview process and required preparation.”

Just cause I’m curious, how many of your close friends are in the same boat as you and took the same path as you?

 

[mwflyer]

And I’ll be honest, I think it was BS that I got called to my shop in Dec 2011 as a RJ FO with 0 TPIC. I mean of course I took the interview, and once hired, accepted the job. But I acknowledged that I was waaaay under qualified compared to the competition. Just pure dumb sheer luck is my guess to what happened. Cause I’m gonna level with you, I didn’t do any habitat for humanity or soup kitchen work.

Sounds like somebody was a DEI hire!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Just cause I’m curious, how many of your close friends are in the same boat as you and took the same path as you?

Very few made it to Spirit and Virgin (the only big names in hiring back then). The main hiring spree started 2013/4, and most my friends who stayed behind ended up being 8 yr FOs. However, they did get to Delta through a reduced interview program in 2014-2017. One guy flowed about 1.5 yrs ago to Delta. One classmate from jetU, joined 9E one week before I did, and then left for PSA in 2014, became a checkairman, and then recently flowed to AA and is on the 737.


It did work out for everybody I knew. But the problem was, how long they were stagnated as RJ FO on very low pay back in those days, and losing their 20s and 30s to the regional level and ending up at majors later in life, which reduces earning and retirement 401K potential.

 

[roundout]

There’s no shortages of posts like these, which can only be taken one way…





“Sitting left seat and doing nothing else”

That’s what’s wrong with this industry.


I currently sit left seat, am starting to bald, and do nothing. Doesn’t make me a bad person. Nor should it make me someone who just gets looked over, if I was trying to apply elsewhere.


The implication being a guy in the left seat already has an ATP, Jet time, and TPIC time, so now that he feels like he’s at a point in his career where he should be getting called, but instead is not, and getting miserable while watching his FOs get hired who may very well be women or minorities?


Yeah, I can see how that might chap some people.

I understand the problem… “well everyone else has an ATP, Jet time, and flight time, so how do we pick out more selectively?”

I’m no expert. But if I was a legacy recruiter, I’d probably put more weight in a guy flying a 737 or a 320 (or any similar planes at said legacy). There’s easier ways to weed out the pool for more competitive pilots without the fluffy crap.







And I’ll be honest, I think it was BS that I got called to my shop in Dec 2011 as a RJ FO with 0 TPIC. I mean of course I took the interview, and once hired, accepted the job. But I acknowledged that I was waaaay under qualified compared to the competition. Just pure dumb sheer luck is my guess to what happened. Cause I’m gonna level with you, I didn’t do any habitat for humanity or soup kitchen work. I was flying 1,000/hrs a year at my regional to boost the flight time and resume, and then spending my off time at home with the family. Call me a quite quitter when it comes to this volunteer strictly for a job interview BS. If I find something to volunteer for, I want it to be passion-based. Not half ass faking it to check a box to make some recruiter happy.


Real talk, being a capped 13th yr guy who isn’t playing that game anymore. That’s the thing now being the outsider and looking inside to the process, it’s easier to call the BS out. If there could be a consequence-free world, I would pay to see an episode of “what airline pilot applicants truly think of their interview process and required preparation.”

Consider if you gave back just out of the goodness of your heart, not because some made up transaction in your head. Just to help someone else.

Though you did out yourself. In some other thread a whole back you were maligning the union for something and I asked you if you had an @alpa.org email address, to which you replied yes and posted a screen shot of your mail inbox, proving…..your Apple mail app has filters set up. If I’ve misunderstood you, DM me your @alpa.org email addy if you don’t want it to be on the forum.

That aside, consider volunteering. Even as you….are…. You have a lot of experience which ALPA would gladly help you pass on to the next generation. Speaking of that. Why are you sitting on this thread maligning the up and comers but also explaining why you don’t give back and mentor? It can’t be both. Either leave the “kids” alone or get in the muck with them.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sounds like somebody was a DEI hire!

There were no pics involved in the application, so if you could tell by my name, then maybe? Although I get told my first name sounds French.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Consider if you gave back just out of the goodness of your heart, not because some made up transaction in your head. Just to help someone else.

View attachment 77123

Though you did out yourself. In some other thread a whole back you were maligning the union for something and I asked you if you had an @alpa.org email address, to which you replied yes and posted a screen shot of your mail inbox, proving…..your Apple mail app has filters set up. If I’ve misunderstood you, DM me your @alpa.org email addy if you don’t want it to be on the forum.

That aside, consider volunteering. Even as you….are…. You have a lot of experience which ALPA would gladly help you pass on to the next generation. Speaking of that. Why are you sitting on this thread maligning the up and comers but also explaining why you don’t give back and mentor? It can’t be both. Either leave the “kids” alone or get in the muck with them.

I used to be P2P but not anymore. Honestly since the whole IVF thing and 3rd kid, I’ve not done anything from a help/volunteer aspect. I’m thinking about maybe doing newhire mentorship, where you’re assigned a newhire and followup with them their first year, but we aren’t hiring right now. Maybe next year.

 

[BobDDuck]

I used to be P2P but not anymore. Honestly since the whole IVF thing and 3rd kid, I’ve not done anything from a help/volunteer aspect. I’m thinking about maybe doing newhire mentorship, where you’re assigned a newhire and followup with them their first year, but we aren’t hiring right now. Maybe next year.

Just as a heads up, your virtual airline is doing an email audit right now. I'd expect that account to go bye bye if it hasn't already.

 

[roundout]

I used to be P2P but not anymore. Honestly since the whole IVF thing and 3rd kid, I’ve not done anything from a help/volunteer aspect. I’m thinking about maybe doing newhire mentorship, where you’re assigned a newhire and followup with them their first year, but we aren’t hiring right now. Maybe next year.

I certainly apologize then. I’m sure they’d be glad to have you in whatever capacity, even p2p.

 

[FlyinSol0]

Here are some facts.

United will undergo a Certificate Holder and Evaluation Program (CHEP Audit).

CHEP audits occur for every airline routinely every few years.

United’s last audit was in 2018.

United will still train and conduct type rides.

A pause of LCP/Instructor training may occur to focus on the audit.

So it sounds like you’re saying nothings changed?

 

[derg]

I’ll take Baba Yaga in the flight deck before some 24 yr old GoPro bro who suffers from visions of grandeur.

Neither of those represent qualitative or quantitative attributes of a candidate.

Look, if you’re looking to simply “emote” without actually listening, just leave me out for a week. I’m simply fearful someone is going to read what you’re writing and take it as serious.

 

[Skåning]

Just as a heads up, your virtual airline is doing an email audit right now. I'd expect that account to go bye bye if it hasn't already.

What account?

 

[Ian_J]

So it sounds like you’re saying nothings changed?

I think the events that occurred recently at the airline triggered the audit for sure. And when they had the last one in 2018 it wasn’t news to even the line pilots much less the public. And if instructor training was paused back then it wasn’t common knowledge. So something is different for sure.

Edit: Hahahah… small senior moment above. I wouldn’t know about 2018… I was thinking about a different airline.

 

[derg]

There’s no shortages of posts like these, which can only be taken one way…





“Sitting left seat and doing nothing else”

That’s what’s wrong with this industry.


I currently sit left seat, am starting to bald, and do nothing. Doesn’t make me a bad person. Nor should it make me someone who just gets looked over, if I was trying to apply elsewhere.


The implication being a guy in the left seat already has an ATP, Jet time, and TPIC time, so now that he feels like he’s at a point in his career where he should be getting called, but instead is not, and getting miserable while watching his FOs get hired who may very well be women or minorities?


Yeah, I can see how that might chap some people.

I understand the problem… “well everyone else has an ATP, Jet time, and flight time, so how do we pick out more selectively?”

I’m no expert. But if I was a legacy recruiter, I’d probably put more weight in a guy flying a 737 or a 320 (or any similar planes at said legacy). There’s easier ways to weed out the pool for more competitive pilots without the fluffy crap.







And I’ll be honest, I think it was BS that I got called to my shop in Dec 2011 as a RJ FO with 0 TPIC. I mean of course I took the interview, and once hired, accepted the job. But I acknowledged that I was waaaay under qualified compared to the competition. Just pure dumb sheer luck is my guess to what happened. Cause I’m gonna level with you, I didn’t do any habitat for humanity or soup kitchen work. I was flying 1,000/hrs a year at my regional to boost the flight time and resume, and then spending my off time at home with the family. Call me a quite quitter when it comes to this volunteer strictly for a job interview BS. If I find something to volunteer for, I want it to be passion-based. Not half ass faking it to check a box to make some recruiter happy.


Real talk, being a capped 13th yr guy who isn’t playing that game anymore. That’s the thing now being the outsider and looking inside to the process, it’s easier to call the BS out. If there could be a consequence-free world, I would pay to see an episode of “what airline pilot applicants truly think of their interview process and required preparation.”

I dont have the level of empathy available, at the moment, to serve audience to your ‘airing of grievances from the toilet’/“Wall of Text”. Talk to your chief pilot about concerns about pilot selection.

 

[zmiller4]

And that’s where all the BS came in about habitat for humanity, soup kitchen volunteer, all the extra crap you can do to stand out.

You come across as a pretty swell guy.

One of the problems at my regional was bad ADM from people who basically came in as DEC with limited experience.

Good god you have literally zero self awareness.

 

[Skåning]

Good god you have literally zero self awareness.

Asperger’s

 

[derg]

You come across as a pretty swell guy.



Good god you have literally zero self awareness.

Like running into a drunk in a lonely bar.

“It’s a beautiful day!”

“It’s not beautiful, on a day just like today a girl broke my heart. Don’t date. Don’t get married. I don’t like people. I’m hungry, why doesn’t this bar have food? I hate the beer selection”

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Like running into a drunk in a lonely bar.

“It’s a beautiful day!”

“It’s not beautiful, on a day just like today a girl broke my heart. Don’t date. Don’t get married. I don’t like people. I’m hungry, why doesn’t this bar have food? I hate the beer selection”

Attitude us contagious.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You come across as a pretty swell guy.



Good god you have literally zero self awareness.

Just calling it like it is.

And as a FO I was lower time. But by the time I logged my first hour of TPIC as a 121 CA, I had 9,922 hours total, 11 yrs as FO total. Today,l you could be a 1,500 hr pilot to a regional, 1000 hrs there, join a legacy and take a DEC position and be a 737/320 Captain with sub 3,000 hrs.




*civilian example only, military entire different. 1,500 mil guy is very experienced based on how their flight time is earned and logged.