United Airlines Not Playing Around on Vaccine Mandate

[jtrain609]

Would be nice if the vaccine was more effective against transmission of the virus. Lots of studies coming out that in the real world, the vaccine isn't terribly effective against transmission, the longer you are from your vaccine date, especially against the Delta variant. It's essentially a preemptive therapeutic at this point.

Just the fact that we're talking about boosters less than a year after the vaccines became public should be setting off some alarm bells.

I'm not anti-vax and was first in line to get my shots, but this is pretty concerning to me. If it turns out that long term these vaccines just prevent serious illness and don't slow the spread as much as we thought, then it doesn't make sense for companies and governments to push the vaccine.

COVID vaccines protect against Delta, but their effectiveness wanes

Massive UK study of COVID-19 cases shows that people who are jabbed have good immunity at first, but quickly become more vulnerable to the fast-spreading Delta variant.

www.nature.com

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.

www.nature.com

What do you think a yearly flu shot is? Or an MMR booster? Or a tetanus booster?

 

[GypsyPilot]

Would be nice if the vaccine was more effective against transmission of the virus. Lots of studies coming out that in the real world, the vaccine isn't terribly effective against transmission, the longer you are from your vaccine date, especially against the Delta variant. It's essentially a preemptive therapeutic at this point.

Just the fact that we're talking about boosters less than a year after the vaccines became public should be setting off some alarm bells.

I'm not anti-vax and was first in line to get my shots, but this is pretty concerning to me. If it turns out that long term these vaccines just prevent serious illness and don't slow the spread as much as we thought, then it doesn't make sense for companies and governments to push the vaccine.

COVID vaccines protect against Delta, but their effectiveness wanes

Massive UK study of COVID-19 cases shows that people who are jabbed have good immunity at first, but quickly become more vulnerable to the fast-spreading Delta variant.

www.nature.com

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.

www.nature.com

It says it right there in both articles. There is a drop in effectiveness for vaccinated people preventing breakthroughs, but it’s still a very significant difference compared to not being vaccinated.

More importantly, somehow people are totally getting confused by this and spreading misinformation. Yes, a vaccinated person can still spread COVID if they get infected.

But that’s a very big IF. The vaccinated group is still far less likely to even catch COVID, so therefore the number of vaccinated spreaders is extremely low, particularly amongst a vaccinated group.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

What do you think a yearly flu shot is? Or an MMR booster? Or a tetanus booster?

My employer doesn't require these. Frankly, it's none of their business. Now it appears the government will attempt to pressure private businesses to mandate the vaccine as well.

It says it right there in both articles. There is a drop in effectiveness for vaccinated people preventing breakthroughs, but it’s still a very significant difference compared to not being vaccinated.

More importantly, somehow people are totally getting confused by this and spreading misinformation. Yes, a vaccinated person can still spread COVID if they get infected.

But that’s a very big IF. The vaccinated group is still far less likely to even catch COVID, so therefore the number of vaccinated spreaders is extremely low, particularly amongst a vaccinated group.

This is from the Mayo Clinic, not some crackpot conspiracy website.

"These vaccines were not designed to prevent that infection. These vaccines were designed to prevent hospitalizations, severe illness, and death."

 

[jtrain609]

My employer doesn't require these. Frankly, it's none of their business. Now it appears the government will attempt to pressure private businesses to mandate the vaccine as well.

This is from the Mayo Clinic, not some crackpot conspiracy website.

"These vaccines were not designed to prevent that infection. These vaccines were designed to prevent hospitalizations, severe illness, and death."

You're correct.

Your kindergarten required it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

My employer doesn't require these. Frankly, it's none of their business.

If you work for me and interact with my clients and customers, then everything about you is my business. You aren’t entitled to a job from any employer.

”These vaccines were not designed to prevent that infection. These vaccines were designed to prevent hospitalizations, severe illness, and death."

Oh, the horrors!

 

[GypsyPilot]

My employer doesn't require these. Frankly, it's none of their business. Now it appears the government will attempt to pressure private businesses to mandate the vaccine as well.

This is from the Mayo Clinic, not some crackpot conspiracy website.

"These vaccines were not designed to prevent that infection. These vaccines were designed to prevent hospitalizations, severe illness, and death."

Right, and yet they still do a very good job at preventing infection. Pretty amazing really!

 

[///AMG]

I know the big bogeyman is the government and "overreach" these days....and sometimes, IMO, for good reason. But I think this particular issue is just good business for a lot of companies, not govt. pressure or intervention. Does it make good business sense for employees to receive a vaccine that nearly assures that they will not be hospitalized or die a preventable death? Does it make good business sense for a business to reassure an anxious public that they are taking precautions during a global pandemic? I agree with Todd here......their company, their rules. People can always find a new job if they are no longer happy with the terms of employment. That is taking "personal responsibility". Having a year and a half meltdown like a 4 year old is not what that term refers to.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

You're correct.

Your kindergarten required it.

I've never had a flu shot in my life. I am not anti-vax, I just don't understand why mandating vaccines is required if it doesn't fully prevent you from getting or spreading the disease. I received a mandated tetanus vaccine and booster because it has nearly 100% efficacy. Those mandates make sense.

Right, and yet they still do a very good job at preventing infection. Pretty amazing really!

So what's the point of a mandate, exactly? We will never reach herd immunity or eradicate the disease. At this point, the only thing the vaccines have been proven to do is prevent you from getting seriously ill or prevent your death. I'd say those are pretty big motivating factors to get the vaccine, but if someone doesn't want to, that's their choice.

More data from the CDC:

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 outbreaks associated with ...

www.cdc.gov

 

[Wardogg]

If you work for me and interact with my clients and customers, then everything about you is my business.

No, that's not true at all. If my employer came to me and asked me if I was getting enough sex at home to keep me in a good enough mood to interact with customers, that might earn them a pretty good lawsuit.

There a numerous things that are none and I mean NONE of your business as an employer.

You aren’t entitled to a job from any employer.

Very accurate.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I've never had a flu shot in my life. I am not anti-vax

Your second statement is contradicted by your first.

I just don't understand why mandating vaccines is required if it doesn't fully prevent you from getting or spreading the disease.

Wearing a seatbelt doesn’t fully prevent car accidents, but it’s still required because it’s highly effective at reducing death and injury.

Your argument is nonsensical.

I'd say those are pretty big motivating factors to get the vaccine, but if someone doesn't want to, that's their choice.

Not anymore, it’s not. Thank fictional sky bully! It’s about damned time.

 

[Wardogg]

Not anymore, it’s not. Thank fictional sky bully! It’s about damned time.

LOL you sure?

There are 30.7 million small businesses in the U.S. which account for 99.9 percent of all U.S. businesses (SBA, 2019).

Small business stats show that most businesses in America have fewer than 500 employees. Those businesses with fewer than 100 employees account for 98.2 percent, and those with fewer than 20 employees account for 89 percent of all businesses in the country.

With so many small businesses in the U.S., it’s no surprise that small businesses generate the majority of jobs in the United States. According to the Small Business Administration, small companies create 1.5 million jobs annually and account for 64 percent of new jobs created in the U.S. (Fundera, 2019).

How many people does this actually effect? How many of those big businesses employees havent already gotten a jab?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Your second statement is contradicted by your first.

No, I just don't see much of an upside for something that is roughly 50% effective at preventing disease and it certainly isn't mandated by any government or business.

Wearing a seatbelt doesn’t fully prevent car accidents, but it’s still required because it’s highly effective at reducing death and injury.

Your argument is nonsensical.

I don't agree with those laws, either. It's an overreach of government. People are allowed to make stupid choices. Fast food causes obesity and heart disease, which are much bigger public health concerns. Should the government ban fast food?

 

[BigZ]

Your second statement is contradicted by your first.

Why's that? I think I had a flu shot like once in my life and there was zero positive impact from it. I got a substantial case a couple of weeks later, so I been skipping those. Finally made it to the doctor's office January this year, asked them to stab me with that too, they said there's no point in January, come back next season maybe.

All vaxxed up otherwise, including many optional things.

 

[GypsyPilot]

I've never had a flu shot in my life. I am not anti-vax, I just don't understand why mandating vaccines is required if it doesn't fully prevent you from getting or spreading the disease. I received a mandated tetanus vaccine and booster because it has nearly 100% efficacy. Those mandates make sense.



So what's the point of a mandate, exactly? We will never reach herd immunity or eradicate the disease. At this point, the only thing the vaccines have been proven to do is prevent you from getting seriously ill or prevent your death. I'd say those are pretty big motivating factors to get the vaccine, but if someone doesn't want to, that's their choice.

More data from the CDC:

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 outbreaks associated with ...

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 60804

I don’t disagree. It’s all their choice whether or not to work somewhere that mandates it. Pilots at United are free to go get a job somewhere else.

I made a career change before, it’s entirely possible.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

LOL you sure?

There are 30.7 million small businesses in the U.S. which account for 99.9 percent of all U.S. businesses (SBA, 2019).

Yes, I’m aware, as I own several of them, dumbass. But what your statistics leave out is that while there are a whole lot of small businesses, they don’t employ that many people. I own four small businesses. Only one of them employs anyone. A lot of small businesses are created as tax shelters, holding companies, etc. The reality is that only 30% of workers are employed by companies that employ fewer than 100 people. And many of those small businesses that employ the other 30%, including mine, are requiring vaccinating anyway. So all in all, somewhere around 80% of all employees in the country will have no choice but to get vaccinated.

It’s morning in America again.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

No, I just don't see much of an upside for something that is roughly 50% effective at preventing disease and it certainly isn't mandated by any government or business.

Look, you can pretty it up with all of the silly rationalizations you want, but it’s still an anti-vax position.

I don't agree with those laws, either. It's an overreach of government.

I actually don’t, either. But guess what? Your employer requires it when you’re working for them. Guaranteed. Look in the employee handbook. Anybody who drives a vehicle for an employer is required to practice basic safety measures while driving. Why? Because the employer doesn’t want the liability.

Same thing here. This isn’t about government overreach. This is about you not infecting people at work.

 

[Wardogg]

It’s morning in America again.

Found this while on the OSHA website trying to figure out how OSHA was going to enforce this new mandate. And you wonder why there is distrust.

• A record concerning an employee’s work-related exposure to SARS-CoV-2 is an employee exposure record under 29 CFR § 1910.1020(c)(5). A record of COVID-19 medical test results, medical evaluations, or medical treatment is considered an employee medical record within the meaning of 29 CFR § 1910.1020(c)(6). Medical records are to be handled in accordance with the procedures set forth at 29 CFR § 1913.10, Rules of Agency Practice and Procedure Concerning OSHA Access to Employee Medical Records.
• Injury/Illness Records. CSHOs should review the employer's injury and illness records to identify any workers with recorded illnesses or symptoms associated with exposure(s) to persons with suspected or confirmed COVID-19. As indicated previously in this document, so as not to discourage vaccination, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR Part 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. OSHA will reevaluate its position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.

Fascinating.

Updated Interim Enforcement Response Plan for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

What's truly fascinating is your complete inability to understand anything that you read.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I think it should be a personal choice and companies need to stop trying to virtue signal and win customers over.

Mandating anything, especially new, is a very slippery slope to go down.

What next do we mandate the flu vaccine?

I work in a major hospital system for the county of my city. Every October, it's mandated that we have to take the flu shot, or our employment is in peril. Likewise when I got hired I had to show that all my vaccines were up to date. They weren't and I had to go to employee health and get a titer for hepatis in order to start orientation. Why is this so hard to understand? Follow your employers rules, or seek out new employment.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Rah rah rah something something my rights something Biden is a dictator something something I'm going to be inconvenienced something something I don't have a choice, being forced is wrong something or another.