United AIP

ClearedForOption said:
Ok, I'm gonna respectfully disagree... let's take a hypothetical rate, $269.46/hr. (right before the Pandemic) A top of the scale CA flying a medium jet. Run it through the 'inflation calculator' and you get: $304.32. (Today) How much longer does a average pilot making guarantee have to spend on the road to break even when it comes to spending power. There is a significant cost in time (hours flown, days on the road) to the average pilot to break even from just a few years ago. And this is also while this average pilot is watching his (tied to the overall market performance) retirement take a hit. Hopefully this hypothetical average pilot isn't retiring soon. (which - BTW... 50/50 they might be.)

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As an aside, If you run this same exercise across the industry we are still playing catch up on something as simple as narrowbody pay rates from 20-40 years ago. Let alone the associated work rules that makeup a very difficult to quantify QOL equation.

Now, of course the devil is in the details and it's the work rules in combination with the rates that make for a well-rounded contract. We all know that. Even industry comparisons (CCG's) leave out many of the loopholes that allow pilots to maximize their income or time away from work. (i.e. something like 'conflict bidding' is not a line-by-line comparison item)

Any increase in my basic household expenses are a big deal. $400/month or whatever is not chump change. It represents a minimum of an additional day on the road to make up the income difference. And when the contract isn't keeping up with the inflation and still providing 'the rising tide raises all boats' benefits to future earnings and QOL then I'm looking at it as concessionary bargaining. And no carrier should be in a concessionary bargaining position right now, no matter the sob story management may be telling. Because we are in the eye of the perfect storm that we will not see again for a literal generation. (25+ years) The percentage of the total workforce of pilots that is being replaced across the industry is staggering. Smaller carriers should be leveraging that right now to the maximum effect. Because sometime between 2028-2032 that leverage will be gone as the "Big 3" will have replaced somewhere between 61% and 76% of their pilots.* *(from '18-'32, from a chart I got here on JC a few years ago)

Then, the retirements at the smaller carriers begin to peak. But this 'shortage' will be over as defined as chasing the brass ring, i.e. flying and retiring as a widebody legacy Capt for a large portion of the career. That career goal will be kicked down the road for another generation as the 'Big 3' will have already hired those pilots on their seniority lists.

Anyhoo, my point is that at a minimum we need to hold the line and still make the gains that represent our earned share of the revenue that we help create. Much of the financial woes, outside of the pandemic, can be pointed back to not reinvesting (read this as 'saving' for an inevitable downturn or economic burble) but by redirecting profit across the industry through such programs as stock buybacks. In other words, pilots aren't to blame. Nothing has changed for us in the aggregate, the same bag-of-tricks that was used on the industry post 9/11 will not work this time.

I eagerly look forward to what my United Brothers, Sisters, and Siblings have done and, like everyone, will start at Section 3 and work my way through to see how we will hopefully improve our working agreement in this environment.
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Relax, inflation is “transitory.”

:rolleyes:
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
Someone asked why people are concerned about hourly rates, and I gave you an answer. Essentially anything an airline pilot would want to buy long term or short term has been eroded during the length of this contract. Either way, that ultimately doesn't matter. It isn't a dong measuring contest, as someone pointed out. I am not a United pilot, but from what I can gather, the contract was signed in 2013 and was extended in good faith in 2016. They have a 9 year old contract and are due for a raise. Anyone trying to purchase a house, vehicle, toy, or send their kid to college has had their spending power eroded by nearly a decade of inflation. That's just a fact.

The other point, about negotiating pay on the profitability of the company is asinine, as well. The job of the CEO in today's climate is to pump up the stock price and they do that to the detriment of the company. Management's real goal should be to create a profitable airline. They just handed out a 4 million dollar bonus to Brett Hart. They can't keep using workers and tax payers as a piggy bank for bad decisions.
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This still undermines the priority of wanting to work less for more money. Stop stuffing your head in the sand that you want hourly rates and not work rules, you are failing to see the big picture. You just want money to cover for your losses in inflation, like Bob mentioned. Instead of seeing the big picture of making more money to work less.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
This is a great time to sell a vehicle. Buy, not so much.
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Agreed, but then karma will hit you in life (for laughing at people buying new cars) and some lady in your neighborhood crashes into your car parked outside your house (and admits to texting and driving :ooh:) and suddenly you have a totaled car, big check, and have to buy a new car.
Yeah, new. Because people are selling their 4 year old, used vehicles with 30,000 miles, for the same price as new. WTF!

Ask me how I know………..

you in Honolulu? We need to grab a beer!
 
tcco94 said:
Agreed, but then karma will hit you in life and some lady in your neighborhood crashes into your car parked outside your house (and admits to texting and driving :ooh:) and suddenly you have a totaled car, big check, and have to buy a new car.
Yeah, new. Because people are selling their 4 year old, used vehicles with 30,000 miles, for the same price as new.

Ask me how I know………..

you in Honolulu? We need to grab a beer!
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True!

But honestly, I'm finding more and more cars priced to sell at MSRP. Now they're adding BS like LoJack and/or KARR Security and you can't say no to them because they are already installed. Still, there are dealers that are not doing those games. Just have to look around.

Eg, my local Toyota dealer has a 4K markup on a manual Tacoma. Yet, in the Bay Area, there is a dealer selling those same cars at MSRP.

Schedule wise, just a Mexico turn today. A 4-day Monday that overnights in BOS, SAN, and EWR. Then no more flights this month - only 3 days CQ and I'm off for vacation with the family! July is vacation and EWR and SFO redeyes. Gonna try to get some of them swapped out. I haven't been to Hawaii in a couple months. I think Feb or March was the last time.
 
tcco94 said:
This still undermines the priority of wanting to work less for more money. Stop stuffing your head in the sand that you want hourly rates and not work rules, you are failing to see the big picture. You just want money to cover for your losses in inflation, like Bob mentioned. Instead of seeing the big picture of making more money to work less.
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I want both. As @ClearedForOption pointed out, we’re working harder for less spending power with static pay rates.
 
I was asking @Cherokee_Cruiser if they really thought they were going to get a 17% pay increase? Usually it’s 4-5% with a small increase over DOS. I mean ask for the moon and all. Yes work rules are the key I was just taken back with that pay bump number.
 
The CPI (how we measure inflation) is based on a standard consumer “basket of goods“ that is geared towards the average middle class family making around $50k. It is not an accurate measurement of buying power for someone who makes $200k/yr, for the reason @BobDDuck pointed out: the percentage of your income that goes towards the basics like gas and food is tiny compared to that person barely making ends meet at $50k/yr. You do not need an 8% raise to keep up your buying power this year like someone who makes $50k does.
 
Sculprit said:
I’m going to preface by saying I have no idea about the resell market of a Tesla and am curious as to why only 1k less and why you’re not getting more?

We’ve been looking at going from 2 cars down to 1 and what my gf paid for her pre owned vehicle 5 years ago, she’s actually able to gain about 1k selling it today. One of my buddy’s who bought a brand new truck mid-pandemic is now selling it and is getting 6k more then he paid for it.

I would’ve thought someone selling a Tesla in today’s market would’ve definitely been able to lose no money at all but then again, I’m not well versed and I realize there are multiple variables here.
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I think there’s a few things that come into play with teslas. No one expects to walk into a dealership and buy one, so they’re used to waiting a few months. Part of the experience is customizing your own. They’ve also gotten a better grip on QC in the last few years, and mine is getting close to 12v battery replacement timing…which disincentivizes buying used instead of new. There’s also a newer battery that’s going into new cars.

Between that and the curb rash on my wheels, I’m satisfied. I have a hard time wrapping my head around a 5yr old car being worth more now than 5yrs ago, but I guess that’s reality in some places. Carmax has equivalent cars to mine listed for $5k more than they’re offering me, which seems not unreasonable.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
I was asking @Cherokee_Cruiser if they really thought they were going to get a 17% pay increase? Usually it’s 4-5% with a small increase over DOS. I mean ask for the moon and all. Yes work rules are the key I was just taken back with that pay bump number.
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What can I say. 266 to 320 is a 20% increase proposal. I don’t see that happening. What I do know is guys on APC are rambling about inflation and CPI adjustments and want more than $320/hr.
 
We have the TA and implementation agreed, and being reviewed by the MEC this week (special meeting starts tomorrow I think). So Possibly something end of week if it passes.
 
tcco94 said:
Please, please be good
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