United AIP

That hourly rate that was leaked will set back other shops that are currently in negotiations, I hope reality is higher.

Not really. It will force pilots to think a bit more critically about payrate expectations. Even with inflation going on and the pilot shortage, 20% pay raises aren't a thing.

United getting a deal will break a ton of ice for other companies who don't want to be the first to go in this round of negotiations.
 
Not really. It will force pilots to think a bit more critically about payrate expectations. Even with inflation going on and the pilot shortage, 20% pay raises aren't a thing.

United getting a deal will break a ton of ice for other companies who don't want to be the first to go in this round of negotiations.

Agreed. Your thread about AS pay rates was met with ridicule. There are pilots who will be pissed if they don’t go from $266 to 320/hr in one go.
 
Not really. It will force pilots to think a bit more critically about payrate expectations. Even with inflation going on and the pilot shortage, 20% pay raises aren't a thing.

United getting a deal will break a ton of ice for other companies who don't want to be the first to go in this round of negotiations.
On top of that pay rates are not the be-all and end-all. Too many get caught up with just the hourly wage and don't realize work rules, benefits and other QOL stuff can be worth so much more.
 
I vividly recall Lee Moak telling us at a picket event that the number one prerequisite to getting a big fat contract was the company being profitable. If they Can’t pay you, it’s time to get QOL gains. Too many people look at the pay tables and base everything on that.
 
I vividly recall Lee Moak telling us at a picket event that the number one prerequisite to getting a big fat contract was the company being profitable. If they Can’t pay you, it’s time to get QOL gains. Too many people look at the pay tables and base everything on that.
Boom! 300k a year is only 150k if you get laid off after 6 months.
 
Its a dong measuring contest for a lot of people.

Inflation is taking a huge bite out of everyone’s spending power. Pay rates matter, especially on an old contract. Things that we really spend our money on, like food, gas, and housing are through the roof.


I vividly recall Lee Moak telling us at a picket event that the number one prerequisite to getting a big fat contract was the company being profitable. If they Can’t pay you, it’s time to get QOL gains. Too many people look at the pay tables and base everything on that.

Yet somehow, management finds a way to pay out a bonus or buy back stock.
 
Inflation is taking a huge bite out of everyone’s spending power. Pay rates matter, especially on an old contract. Things that we really spend our money on, like food, gas, and housing are through the roof.

We are already top 1-5%. I highly doubt we are the crowd that gets to beotch about inflation.

Although of course I will beotch about it. Filled 87 gas today for $6 / gallon! Thanks Biden! :)
 
Inflation is taking a huge bite out of everyone’s spending power. Pay rates matter, especially on an old contract. Things that we really spend our money on, like food, gas, and housing are through the roof.

For big ticket purchases, pilots do have a legit concern about their buying power. But those things will normalize over longer periods of times. That just means that a pilot has to be like 95% of the rest of the population and maybe wait a year to buy the new car they want.

For daily consumable items (gas and food mostly), the $400 a month increase is easily covered by a 1% raise, let alone the hypnotical 5% raise in the United API. For a guy making $40k a year, a $400 a month increase in gas and groceries is a huge deal. For a guy making $400k (or even $150k) a year, it's not.
 
For big ticket purchases, pilots do have a legit concern about their buying power. But those things will normalize over longer periods of times. That just means that a pilot has to be like 95% of the rest of the population and maybe wait a year to buy the new car they want.

For daily consumable items (gas and food mostly), the $400 a month increase is easily covered by a 1% raise, let alone the hypnotical 5% raise in the United API. For a guy making $40k a year, a $400 a month increase in gas and groceries is a huge deal. For a guy making $400k (or even $150k) a year, it's not.

Someone asked why people are concerned about hourly rates, and I gave you an answer. Essentially anything an airline pilot would want to buy long term or short term has been eroded during the length of this contract. Either way, that ultimately doesn't matter. It isn't a dong measuring contest, as someone pointed out. I am not a United pilot, but from what I can gather, the contract was signed in 2013 and was extended in good faith in 2016. They have a 9 year old contract and are due for a raise. Anyone trying to purchase a house, vehicle, toy, or send their kid to college has had their spending power eroded by nearly a decade of inflation. That's just a fact.

The other point, about negotiating pay on the profitability of the company is asinine, as well. The job of the CEO in today's climate is to pump up the stock price and they do that to the detriment of the company. Management's real goal should be to create a profitable airline. They just handed out a 4 million dollar bonus to Brett Hart. They can't keep using workers and tax payers as a piggy bank for bad decisions.
 
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For big ticket purchases, pilots do have a legit concern about their buying power. But those things will normalize over longer periods of times. That just means that a pilot has to be like 95% of the rest of the population and maybe wait a year to buy the new car they want.

For daily consumable items (gas and food mostly), the $400 a month increase is easily covered by a 1% raise, let alone the hypnotical 5% raise in the United API. For a guy making $40k a year, a $400 a month increase in gas and groceries is a huge deal. For a guy making $400k (or even $150k) a year, it's not.

For big ticket, yes. As in a house. Car? Absolutely not. Hang onto whatever you got right now, this is not the time to buy a car. All are going mostly at or above MSRP.
 
For big ticket purchases, pilots do have a legit concern about their buying power. But those things will normalize over longer periods of times. That just means that a pilot has to be like 95% of the rest of the population and maybe wait a year to buy the new car they want.

For daily consumable items (gas and food mostly), the $400 a month increase is easily covered by a 1% raise, let alone the hypnotical 5% raise in the United API. For a guy making $40k a year, a $400 a month increase in gas and groceries is a huge deal. For a guy making $400k (or even $150k) a year, it's not.

Ok, I'm gonna respectfully disagree... let's take a hypothetical rate, $269.46/hr. (right before the Pandemic) A top of the scale CA flying a medium jet. Run it through the 'inflation calculator' and you get: $304.32. (Today) How much longer does a average pilot making guarantee have to spend on the road to break even when it comes to spending power. There is a significant cost in time (hours flown, days on the road) to the average pilot to break even from just a few years ago. And this is also while this average pilot is watching his (tied to the overall market performance) retirement take a hit. Hopefully this hypothetical average pilot isn't retiring soon. (which - BTW... 50/50 they might be.)

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As an aside, If you run this same exercise across the industry we are still playing catch up on something as simple as narrowbody pay rates from 20-40 years ago. Let alone the associated work rules that makeup a very difficult to quantify QOL equation.

Now, of course the devil is in the details and it's the work rules in combination with the rates that make for a well-rounded contract. We all know that. Even industry comparisons (CCG's) leave out many of the loopholes that allow pilots to maximize their income or time away from work. (i.e. something like 'conflict bidding' is not a line-by-line comparison item)

Any increase in my basic household expenses are a big deal. $400/month or whatever is not chump change. It represents a minimum of an additional day on the road to make up the income difference. And when the contract isn't keeping up with the inflation and still providing 'the rising tide raises all boats' benefits to future earnings and QOL then I'm looking at it as concessionary bargaining. And no carrier should be in a concessionary bargaining position right now, no matter the sob story management may be telling. Because we are in the eye of the perfect storm that we will not see again for a literal generation. (25+ years) The percentage of the total workforce of pilots that is being replaced across the industry is staggering. Smaller carriers should be leveraging that right now to the maximum effect. Because sometime between 2028-2032 that leverage will be gone as the "Big 3" will have replaced somewhere between 61% and 76% of their pilots.* *(from '18-'32, from a chart I got here on JC a few years ago)

Then, the retirements at the smaller carriers begin to peak. But this 'shortage' will be over as defined as chasing the brass ring, i.e. flying and retiring as a widebody legacy Capt for a large portion of the career. That career goal will be kicked down the road for another generation as the 'Big 3' will have already hired those pilots on their seniority lists.

Anyhoo, my point is that at a minimum we need to hold the line and still make the gains that represent our earned share of the revenue that we help create. Much of the financial woes, outside of the pandemic, can be pointed back to not reinvesting (read this as 'saving' for an inevitable downturn or economic burble) but by redirecting profit across the industry through such programs as stock buybacks. In other words, pilots aren't to blame. Nothing has changed for us in the aggregate, the same bag-of-tricks that was used on the industry post 9/11 will not work this time.

I eagerly look forward to what my United Brothers, Sisters, and Siblings have done and, like everyone, will start at Section 3 and work my way through to see how we will hopefully improve our working agreement in this environment.
 
For big ticket, yes. As in a house. Car? Absolutely not. Hang onto whatever you got right now, this is not the time to buy a car. All are going mostly at or above MSRP.

In the realm of “people making probably dumb decisions”, I’m selling my Tesla. I bought it for a 350mi/week commute that’s less than half of that now, and I don’t want to be a 3 car family.

And carmax is offering only $1k less than I paid for it 3 yrs and almost 30k miles ago. The used car market is bonkers right now.
 
carmax is offering only $1k less than I paid for it 3 yrs and almost 30k miles ago. The used car market is bonkers right now.
I’m going to preface by saying I have no idea about the resell market of a Tesla and am curious as to why only 1k less and why you’re not getting more?

We’ve been looking at going from 2 cars down to 1 and what my gf paid for her pre owned vehicle 5 years ago, she’s actually able to gain about 1k selling it today. One of my buddy’s who bought a brand new truck mid-pandemic is now selling it and is getting 6k more then he paid for it.

I would’ve thought someone selling a Tesla in today’s market would’ve definitely been able to lose no money at all but then again, I’m not well versed and I realize there are multiple variables here.
 
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