Turbine Vs Jet...

[SoonerAv8r]

To answer the above posts all at once...

The goal is ultimately HE being able to fly his own plane, but never without me is what was communicated. He would like a Jet at some point I know that.

LOGS... do you mean the KA200? Yes it is a nice plane, however, he is looking more for the "luxury" plane, and to him atleast the pc-12 is a much more professional look to it.

Piaggio are GREAT GREAT planes. But from the sounds of it, he just wants to be able to fly upfront and overtime get used to the "flow of flying a big plane" so that he can mostly do it overtime, but id still have to be there. So bascially he does not have time to train for flying, just for the flying to go where he wants to.. He wants to be sitting up front. Sooo.. anything that we get would pretty much have to be able to be Single Pilot waiver for since he wants to sit up front.. which, one.. Single Pilot Turbine is already a work load, let alone teaching it too ya know?...

which brings me back to milleR... Yes.. the insurance thing is probably going to suck. Im not a high high timer by anymeans but have some experience under my belt. Lets just say I qualify for ATP.


Now.... He ultimatly wants a plane that he can fly... weather he is rated or not, id be there to be PIC, he just wants to have fun when on the trips ya know? So.. sure a citation would get him to and from where he wants to go in 2hrs... a Pilatus would do it in 4.. the citation he would have no understanding of the principals of it, but flying on autopilot is fun anyways right haha. Same with the Piaggio or Pilatus.. He just wants to sit up front and fly with me on the deck. Id still be the PIC rated. Which brings back to the insurance thing of... once im done with FSI, or SIMCOM.. or simuflite etc etc.... would I have to get my ATP to be Single Pilot waived for any of those aircraft?

From my experience, here is how the transition will go as far as the PC-12 in concerned...
Upon purchase you will recieve 2 training vouchers for the SimCom transition course. It would be advisable that since you would both be spending time in the cockit, that you and the owner would attend this training.
Then, the insurance company is going to require you, the "PIC" to fly xxhrs of dual with an approved instructor. Then you would be in good shape to fly with the owner/pilot.
You do not need an ATP certificate to do so.

PM me for more info in regards to insurance requirements. I can also pass along our agent who specializes in PC12 insurance.

 

[BTAcola]

From my experience, here is how the transition will go as far as the PC-12 in concerned...
Upon purchase you will recieve 2 training vouchers for the SimCom transition course. It would be advisable that since you would both be spending time in the cockit, that you and the owner would attend this training.
Then, the insurance company is going to require you, the "PIC" to fly xxhrs of dual with an approved instructor. Then you would be in good shape to fly with the owner/pilot.
You do not need an ATP certificate to do so.

PM me for more info in regards to insurance requirements. I can also pass along our agent who specializes in PC12 insurance.

Great info thanks.. I PMd you...

 

[OldTownPilot]

No ATP required for a C-525 single pilot type rating. I dont know about the requirements of a single pilot waiver in a C-560.

The Piaggio can be flown single pilot.

 

[docflyer]

1000TT is not any sort of requirement whatsoever!!! I've got nearly 50hrs PIC in the NG all with about 550TT.

I think he was talking about being able to fly it himself single pilot - depending on insurance requirements.

Anybody flying PIC (single-pilot) in the PC-12 is gonna need at least 1000TT, maybe even more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 550TT, you've gotta have another pilot with you that's qualified to fly it single pilot right?

 

[SoonerAv8r]

I think he was talking about being able to fly it himself single pilot - depending on insurance requirements.

Anybody flying PIC (single-pilot) in the PC-12 is gonna need at least 1000TT, maybe even more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 550TT, you've gotta have another pilot with you that's qualified to fly it single pilot right?

You are incorrect. The only thing I needed another pilot for was xxhrs of dual, complete SimCom and away you go.

 

[ricecakecm]

It's all what your insurance underwriter is willing to sign off on and what you're willing to pay in premiums. You can get a low time guy insured, but chances are, the premiums will be higher. *Anything or anyone* is insurable, it just depends how much you want to spend.

 

[docflyer]

You are incorrect. The only thing I needed another pilot for was xxhrs of dual, complete SimCom and away you go.

Wow! Good job man! I'm jealous! I didn't know it could be done that low, but I guess it just depends on the insurance company and how much you want to pay in premiums.

Do you mind sharing what the insurance company wanted for your mins and dual in ac?

What SN do you guys have? Got Build 5 in yet?

Sorry don't mean to hijack this thread. The PC-12 is an awesome all around airplane that does everything well except go fast but I still think your boss would enjoy it. Have you looked at the Phenom 100 at all?

Doc

 

[SoonerAv8r]

Wow! Good job man! I'm jealous! I didn't know it could be done that low, but I guess it just depends on the insurance company and how much you want to pay in premiums.

Do you mind sharing what the insurance company wanted for your mins and dual in ac?

What SN do you guys have? Got Build 5 in yet?

Sorry don't mean to hijack this thread. The PC-12 is an awesome all around airplane that does everything well except go fast but I still think your boss would enjoy it. Have you looked at the Phenom 100 at all?

Doc

Well when we aquired ours I was sitting on 450TT CSEL, CMEL, CFI, II, MEI and about 100hrs high performance (Matrix)

Then required SimCom transition course and 75dual.

We have SN 1001 pictured in the avatar. Yes, the first NG and poster child! Build 5 scheduled for next month. Boss won't quit scheduling trips...He likes it just a little...

 

[docflyer]

Cool! Thanks. 1001 the poster child! I actually saw you guys at Landmark in INT probably about a month or so ago. I knew I had seen that plane and tail number before somewhere but couldn't place it for the longest time. You guys have a nice paint job on that bird!

 

[SoonerAv8r]

Cool! Thanks. 1001 the poster child! I actually saw you guys at Landmark in INT probably about a month or so ago. I knew I had seen that plane and tail number before somewhere but couldn't place it for the longest time. You guys have a nice paint job on that bird!

Yes we are frequent visitors to INT

 

[minitour]

I dont know about the requirements of a single pilot waiver in a C-560.

Doesn't exist.

You can fly the 501 and 551 single pilot with an unrestricted CE-500 type rating or the 500 and 550 single pilot with annual single pilot waiver training and an unrestricted CE-500 type. The 560 still can be flown with a CE500 type rating, but not single pilot ... not even a single pilot waiver for it. I'm sure it can be done, it just isn't legal. I wouldn't go there, personally.

The CE525S type is a single pilot type rating good for all (so far) CE-525 aircraft. Anyone know for sure about the CJ4?

Personally, I'd probably pitch him for a CJ2, CJ2+ or CJ3. The 2+ and 3 will have the FADEC (easy) and PL21 (nice). The CJs are easy to fly, relatively fast and haul a decent amount of crap. A little tight up front, but that's going to be true of all smaller jets.

If he doesn't want to go into the CJ market, then the B350 is the way to go, IMO.

-mini

 

[CK]

Doesn't exist.

The 560 still can be flown with a CE500 type rating, but not single pilot ... not even a single pilot waiver for it. I'm sure it can be done, it just isn't legal. I wouldn't go there, personally.

The Citation V, Ultra, and Encore (all 560 derivatives) can be flown single pilot. The 560XL cannot.

Alex.

 

[minitour]

The Citation V, Ultra, and Encore (all 560 derivatives) can be flown single pilot. The 560XL cannot.

Alex.

Since when? Reference?

*edit*
Just checked the AFM and it says "1 pilot and 1 copilot". Is this something that recently changed?

-mini

 

[CK]

My dad flew an Ultra for a couple years. Here is Simufite's Citation Ultra training (including single pilot courses):

http://website.cae.com/cts/bin/sear...lot&manufacturer=Cessna&actype=Citation Ultra

If you google "Cessna 560 single pilot" you can also find a few articles about flying the Encore, Ultra, and V single pilot.

Edit:

The Cessna Models 500, 550, S550, 552 and 560 are Transport category (Part 25) aeroplanes whereas the Cessna Models 501 and 551 are Normal category (Part 23) aeroplanes. It has been stated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and agreed by Transport Canada that the Cessna Models 500, 550, S550, 552 and 560 are similar to the Models 501 and 551. For some time, the Models 501 and 551 have been accepted by Transport Canada for single-pilot operation with certain equipment required to be installed as specified in the Airplane Flight Manual (AFM).

In order to permit single-pilot operation of the Cessna Models 500, 550, S550, 552 and 560, the FAA has chosen to grant exemptions to operating rules rather than revise the certification basis. Transport Canada has chosen to grant the airworthiness certification for single-pilot operation through the Supplemental Type Approval process with operational and licensing requirements being addressed in accordance with existing regulations

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/maintenance/AARPC/ANs/D002.htm

Alex.

 

[minitour]

I stand corrected (actually...I'm sitting on my ass, but that's irrelevant). My training was apparently misleading or incomplete. The instructors made it a point to tell us the 560 was two pilots only. We discussed the 560xl only long enough to discuss that it was not included in the 500 type and would not be discussed further. :laff:

Thanks for the info!

-mini

 

[SoonerAv8r]

My dad flew an Ultra for a couple years. Here is Simufite's Citation Ultra training (including single pilot courses):

http://website.cae.com/cts/bin/sear...lot&manufacturer=Cessna&actype=Citation Ultra

If you google "Cessna 560 single pilot" you can also find a few articles about flying the Encore, Ultra, and V single pilot.

Edit:



http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/maintenance/AARPC/ANs/D002.htm

Alex.

Leave it to the Kid...

 

[BTAcola]

Leave it to the Kid...

well here is the update. Its between two aircraft. A PC-12, and a Citation Mustang. Both has pros, both of cons. Leaning towards PC-12, even though it is much faster, PC-12 has wayyy more room and comfort and holds more people......

 

[minitour]

I'm not a fan of singles in all weather conditions (IFR, night, over water, icing, etc.) but even I'd get a PC-12 if given the choice between the platypus and the mustang.

No question.

-mini

 

[BTAcola]

I'm not a fan of singles in all weather conditions (IFR, night, over water, icing, etc.) but even I'd get a PC-12 if given the choice between the platypus and the mustang.

No question.

-mini

IF you dont mind me asking why? The missions to be flown are usually 1000nm or longer... ya the PC-12 can do long range no problem, but would take lots longer than the jet. ANND.. right now, for our situation.. a PC-12 used, is more than a brand new Mustang off the line in Sept. (just had a meeting yesterday with cessna)

 

[minitour]

Comfort. I've seen the mustang up close and personal. No way I want to spend any longer than absolutely necessary in there. Way too cramped for my tastes.

Type. No checkride to pass/fail. Just go to simcom for a week or so, maybe some time in the plane.

Fuel Flow. You aren't burning twice (maybe more) as much fuel. Anyone have mustang numbers?

Platypus. What a cool word. Yeah, I know that's not the real name...but I bet you can slip it by ATC a few times.

-mini