Tough decisions and broken crystal balls

Tell Spirit they got competition. Frontier has opened a major focus city at Trenton. Just bought the wife/baby a ticket to DTW for just $39 one way. This is a confirmed/revenue ticket! In the Carolinas they do RDU and CLT, and in Florida they do MCO, FLL, TPA, and RSW.

My wife and I flew on Frontier TTN to FLL around Thanksgiving. It was incredibly convenient as it was a 10 min drive up the road, only had to be there about 50 minutes before departure, non-stop flight and parked about 100 yards from the terminal. Both flights were delayed slightly but with the other conveniences I couldn't care less. I would actually pay more for this than having to leave for the same flight out of PHL or EWR on USAirways (AA?) / United.

There were a couple of positive customer service situations which caused me to write a letter to Frontier regarding the exceptional service of one of the crews and particularly the TTN ops manager who went way out of his way after a long day to help me recover an item left on the aircraft.

I'd absolutely fly Frontier again, and frankly from what I've seen from the crews, although I realize I only saw two crews, that's the kind of employee group I believe I'd like to work with if I was in the 121 world. of course, YMMV
 
Hawaiian (not including mergers from long before)
Alaska (not including mergers from long before)

I've got proof of the Alaska-Hawaii merger.

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Car crashes and plane crashes are entirely different animals. Truth is if you are involved in a crash that's bad enough to send the infant flying as a projectile (as they did in the UAL DC10 case at Sioux) then most likely the adults probably aren't going to make it either (more than half died in that crash). Now of course in a car, I always strap the little guy in his seat secured at all times. But the accident dynamics of the two are entirely different.

Polar, about your have a seat and be secured comment, how many times do people fly and then take their belts off? We as pilots turn the seatbelt sign off and even though advise that seatbelts remain on, lots of people take them off.

Yes my child is worth more than $39 but I'm also being realistic about chances of survival in crashes. The last few US crashes like Colgan, Comair, and AA 587 killed everyone and no seat can ever save you from the tremendous G-forces involved in those crashes. Other accidents like Southwest and Asiana at SFO had an infant on board BIA and still lived. Chances of living are going to depend on the deceleration G forces and if they are light and prolonged over time as the aircraft comes to a stop, then everybody has a better chance to live. Severe turbulence has the chance of maybe losing control of your baby if you haven't held him securely. IMO it's a personal decision but I don't think it makes someone a bad parent if they travel on a plane with a BIA. I've done it numerous times with him now and every other parent I saw did it too.
 
CC it's more than just plane crashes, but we'll start from there.

If you are holding a kid in your arms during a rapid deceleration (due to either hard braking or hitting something) your body is going to compress forward and squish the kid.

If you are holding a kid in your arms during a huge drop while in flight, your belt will keep you on the seat but I wouldn't trust your arms to hold a kid down. They'll smack into the ceiling. An adult who doesn't have their belt on my go upward too but will have at least the possibility of protecting themselves with their arms, something a less than 2 year old won't be able to do.

Also, during a rapid pitch the adult will attempt to brace to prevent themselves from squishing the baby (see first paragraph) and in doing so potentially loosen their grip enough that the kid will go cartwheeling down the aisle.

You are a pilot and really should know better. Man up. Get an FAA approved child seat. Buy the extra seat for your kid.

EDIT: To add, the NTSB report says no lap babies were on board Asiana 214. Also, the other more recent (violent) runway excursion CAL in Denver had no lap babies on board either.
 
This is gonna get good! :)
Except at a point one realizes there is no room for discussion. The guy doesn't care about his baby. We cannot do anything about his irresponsible stance. OK so we move on. He can continue to argue and justify why spending $39 to protect a child's life is not necessary. But he does that on his own.

I do think it's interesting that a last comment on a post from my DH would raise such support. Thank you all!
 
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Yeah, ok. He's an engineer and a pilot. He knows better. So he doesn't care.
Did your children wear a crash helmet at all times when growing up? They could have run into the corner of a coffee table at any time. They could have fallen down the stairs and split their skulls. They could have fallen off the swing set or slide and turned their brain into mush. If you didn't make your kids wear a helmet (and knee pads and shoulder pads and wrist braces....) then it is obvious that you didn't care about your kids either.
 
One more series of questions:

Did your children ever ride in an automobile with you?

How many children were injured or killed in the United States in automobiles last year?
How many lap children (unbelted) were injured or killed in airliners last year?

Who cares for the well-being of their child less; the one who transports them as a lap child in an airliner or one who transports them in automobiles?
 
I do take offense at that statement. Of course I care about my first and only born child son. I love him dearly and take care of him / raise him the best I can. You could also put your child in a bubble kept inside your house at all times, with no exposure to the outside world, in a baby/child proof home and I guarantee you that child will successfully make it to age 18. Somewhere between that extreme and downright neglect, there exists a fine balance in which you could successfully raise a child. Nothing will ever be a perfect system. It's all about risk analysis and handling what you think is best. I ask you to show me an airliner accident in which BIAs died and adults lived. I would be interested to see that because I have not come across any cases. Yes, turbulence and other bumps in the air do happen. I'd like to see a case where infants were killed on a plane because of that. I won't deny that there are cases in which adults and infants are hurt (some seriously) due to turbulence.

But all that I throw in my own personal risk matrix and go from there. Cars are a different story and even though the law requires child restraint devices, I do it moreso for the safety aspect of it when you consider 30,000+ deaths on the roads each year. No to mention, car accidents are usually devastating if speed is involved (as opposed to a fender bender). As SteveC already mentioned, your child is far more at risk in a car even with a car seat then he EVER will be as a BIA in a plane without a seat. Yet, I'm sure you take your child in a car to go about your daily life.

Do not accuse me of not caring about my child. Who are you to judge? How would you feel if I judge you like this........ Your husband is a pilot like I am. My wife stays at home and raises the child. From your screen name, it sounds like you work in a HR job and therefore either leave your child(ren) in daycare or at family relatives/friends. You may do this M-F or a few days a week. But either way, your child goes on for periods without one parent present to watch him. How many children die in day care centers every years from accidents? How much at risk are you putting your child by transporting him in a car to take him somewhere and drop him off while you work? And since you stated that I don't care about my baby because I'd fly with him as BIA, would it also be fair to say that a woman doesn't care about her baby if she decides to work even after having that child? Sounds like leaving behind responsibility which she knew was coming? Do you think that's a fair judgment? Of course not. Every one is different. Every person's risk matrix is different. For the record, I let my wife choose and she wanted to stay home with the baby. I would NEVER allow my baby to be taken care of in some day care by strangers who could not love him as much as my wife and I do. I think there's more risk involved in a daycare that than flying as a BIA and annual fatality rates at daycares prove it.

In conclusion, please do not judge me as a parent or question how much I love my child because I disagreed with your risk matrix about flying with a baby as BIA versus a car seat.
 
You are taking this to a new extreme. But to answer your first question, my child wore a helmet in cycling and any other similar activity. It is the law in my township. Otherwise my child was In safety seats.

I'm not going to continue to waste my valuable time with this absurd defense of non-defense of our children. Good night and good travels.
 
You are taking this to a new extreme. But to answer your first question, my child wore a helmet in cycling and any other similar activity. It is the law in my township. Otherwise my child was In safety seats.

I'm not going to continue to waste my valuable time with this absurd defense of non-defense of our children. Good night and good travels.

Since you accused me, I'd like you to answer my question, if not tonight some other time, in regards to what you choose to do when you had your kids? Did you stay at home for the first most important formulative years in a child's life, or were you working your HR job? See my post above about judging others.
 
You are taking this to a new extreme. But to answer your first question, my child wore a helmet in cycling and any other similar activity. It is the law in my township. Otherwise my child was In safety seats.

I'm not going to continue to waste my valuable time with this absurd defense of non-defense of our children. Good night and good travels.
I don't have a problem if you disagree with his decision, and in fact I agree with you on that, but I think that you are way off base, and in fact out of line, when you say that he doesn't care about his child's well being.
 
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