Dugie8
Well-Known Member
Rotary wing? And you say make no personal attacks, yet you try to kill the man.
For shame....
Tough decisions and broken crystal balls
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
For shame....
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
If he knew what a lousy fixed wing pilot I was he would never suggest something MORE challenging.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
@Cherokee_Cruiser
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21536397/...ler-survives-deadly-plane-crash/#.UsYE0bSJmPM
Since 1970, one-third of lone survivors of airline crashes have been children or flight crew.
The youngest sole survivor is Paul Ashton Vick who on January 28, 1947, survived a China National Aviation Corporation crash when he was just 18 months old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sole_survivors_of_airline_accidents_or_incidents
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8128827.stm
A 12-year-old girl survived the Yemeni plane crash, the latest in a line of children to escape death in an air disaster. So do youngsters have a better chance of living when a plane goes down?
Rescuers are scouring the Indian Ocean off the coast of east Africa after a passenger jet crashed with 153 people on board.
The plane had been en route from Sanaa, the capital of Yemen, to the Comoros Islands, when it went down in bad weather.
So far only one has been found, a 12-year-old girl, but she's not the first example of a child being alone in living through a plane crash.
In 2003 a three-year-old boy was the only survivor of a plane crash in Sudan which killed 116, in 1995 a nine-year-old girl was alone in living through a mid-air explosion on board a flight over Colombia.
Two years later, a Thai boy was the lone survivor of a Vietnam Airlines crash which killed 65 and in 1998 a 10-year-old boy was alone in surviving a Taiwanese jet crash which killed 196. However, he died shortly afterwards.
So do children have a better chance of surviving plane crashes? It's a question that leaves safety experts perplexed and in want of hard evidence to answer with any certainty.
But although unclear, there are reasons to suggest some children fare better than others, depending on their size.
Prof Ed Galea, director of the Fire Safety Engineering Group at the University of Greenwich, suggests small children bigger than infants but not too tall would be cocooned within their seat and therefore might be less likely to receive body injuries.
"With an adult with their head above the seat and legs on the floor, the chances are you'll receive some sort of injury from debris landing on your head and legs flailing around. You're more prone to broken limbs," he says.
"A youngster in their own seat... might be less likely to receive body injuries. They are more or less cocooned in a solid, rigid environment."
He says it's possible this applies to any seat but is more likely to have a bearing in modern "16G" kinds designed to withstand deceleration impacts up to 16-times people's body weight. Those seats have only been introduced in the last few years.
But he says air travel is probably more dangerous for infants because of the way they are carried on the laps of their parents and in extension belts attached to their parents' belts.
Prof Galea says: "Sometimes they're just held by their parents and people don't realise the G-forces they're exposed to. The decelerations increase the apparent weight of the child, so while you feel comfortable holding them, when decelerating it becomes very hard to hold on... the child can be bouncing around the aircraft."
The same thing happens when there's unexpected turbulence and babies restrained in extension belts do no better because in a crash the parent's body typically bends forwards crushing the child, he says.
Physiologically there is no reason why children should survive a plane crash over an adult, he adds, and anyone falling at a great height is unlikely to survive.
But he suggests falls shortly after take off or approaching landing may stack in the child's favour.
"It would be miraculous to survive that, but there have been cases of people falling into trees. I would suggest a smaller body mass would mean it's more likely the tree would break your fall," he explains.
Mike Hayes, head of research and development at the Child Accident Prevention Trust, says in some other circumstances children might fare better than adults, but it is a grey area.
"Generally there's an issue as you get older with your bones becoming more brittle, but I don't know what the optimum age is. You're probably strongest in your 20s," he says.
"The problem with children is that because they're still growing, protective devices have to be adapted to them."
He says in car seats they have seat straps over both shoulders and their rib cages, giving more protection than an adult would have, but that didn't necessarily mean they were safer.
In falls from windows and down stairs, he saw no reason why children should come out better than adults, although he suggests their rib cages may be more flexible.
"I've heard in immersion in cold water, a child's body system may shut down and allow them to survive more than an adult," he says.
"But the reverse is also true, a child will burn itself because its skin is thinner... there are minuses as well as pluses in being a child."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/sole-survivor-of-flight-255-plane-1263588
Cecelia Cichan was just four when she became the sole survivor of doomed Northwest Airlines Flight 255
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/the-boy-who-survived-a-1960-midair-crash/?_r=0
On Dec. 16, 1960, a Friday, a United Airlines DC-8 and a Trans World Airlines Constellation collided in midflight. The TWA flight crashed on Staten Island; the United flight came down in Park Slope, starting a fire that also killed six people on the ground. In total, 134 would die from the crash.
One boy was found alive in the snow in Park Slope: Stephen Baltz of Wilmette, Ill., a suburb of Chicago. He had been flying alone; his parents rushed to his bedside,
An infant also survived the Eastern Flight 401 crash. Both parents died at the scene.
JAL 747 crash into terrain. Only 4 of 524 passengers survived. All survivors were females, two were children.
UA232, 3 of the 4 infants survived the crash.
On May 12, 2010, Afriqiyah Airlines Flight 771 exploded when it landed in Tripoli, Libya. Nine-year-old Ruben van Assouw was the only survivor of the crash, which claimed 103 lives, including those of his parents and his brother.
On June 30, 2009, an Airbus A310-324 crashed into the Indian Ocean, killing 152 of the 153 people on board, including Bakari’s mother. Despite the fact that she was a poor swimmer and didn’t have a life jacket, the French schoolgirl managed to hang on to a piece of the wreckage for as long as 13 hours.
Baby survives Peru crash, mother dies
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/606640
18 month old boy survives plane crash-both parents killed.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19701011&id=LzgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ezIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=7106,4650969
There are many other examples than the ones I have listed here.
Last edited:
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Just made a recommendation to consider the darkside......
Yeah, but he wants a FLYING job. Helicopters don't fly- they're so ugly the Earth repels them.
http://news.yahoo.com/asking-obama--ban-lap-kids-on-planes-012153310.html
Posting from my iPad so I don't have a lot of ability to cut & paste and make a long post.
Please put babies in carseats in their own seat. Please. I'm not going to throw insults or call names or anything. Please, just do it.
Posting from my iPad so I don't have a lot of ability to cut & paste and make a long post.
Please put babies in carseats in their own seat. Please. I'm not going to throw insults or call names or anything. Please, just do it.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I do in a car, not in a plane. There are different crash dynamics and risk analysis.
A Life Aloft,
Your first example was a Cessna 172 crash. We were referring to airliner crashes. I see the examples of lone survivors for young children. Thank you for those examples. A lot of them like the NWA and other lone survivor stories including the TWA/UAL midair were just sheer luck that didn't have anything to do with BIA versus a car seat.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
He wanted to be closer to home not write a death wish.
HRDiva
Well-Known Member
So tonight I insisted that my husband drive out a night early to check into a hotel room rather than leave at 4am when it will still be snowing. The hotel will cost $35 with taxes because no one desires to be in ACY in a January storm!
He's there safely now.
Money well spent. As my Mother always said, "If you have your health, you have everything."
He's there safely now.
Money well spent. As my Mother always said, "If you have your health, you have everything."
z987k
Well-Known Member
I don't care much what you do with your child as long as it doesn't impact me or other people. So I wouldn't care if you wanted to carry it in your arms except that your arms are not strong enough to hold it, in which case the shrieking pink goblin becomes a deadly projectile which will injure other people.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Decision made and acted upon. Mods - Feel free to lock the thread before there's a West Side Story style dance fight.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
Do you feel pretty?
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
The fact that we're still allowed to play the "how many infants" game is pretty shocking.
We called lap children "Lap Rockets" at Skyway for a reason.
I lap rocketed into a windshield in 1975 during a car accident. I'll show you the scar!
Secure your children, I don't want to take a toddler in the back of the head during a high speed RTO.
I lap rocketed into a windshield in 1975 during a car accident. I'll show you the scar!
Secure your children, I don't want to take a toddler in the back of the head during a high speed RTO.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
What do you mean 'YOU people'?!
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
"One night in Redding..."We called lap children "Lap Rockets" at Skyway for a reason.
I lap rocketed into a windshield in 1975 during a car accident. I'll show you the scar!
Secure your children, I don't want to take a toddler in the back of the head during a high speed RTO.
My (hypothetical future) kids will get their own lap belt or they won't go.
