ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
The part you circled is subordinate to F4
To ODP, or not to ODP, that is the question.
- Thread starter MNFlyboy
- Start date
The part you circled is subordinate to F4
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I mean, that's why it's called a "single engine procedure." It's predicated on a different set of rules than the two-engined procedure. You only do it if you're single engine, unless I could get authorized to fly that procedure, or unless otherwise approved. What's legal doesn't always make sense. Ever tried to get the approach minimums changed at an airport? My boss did and ended up in a circular process diagram, it was hilarious - the approach minimums hadn't been updated in like 12 years and now there was an AWOS at the field and two nearby fields. The FAA doesn't always make sense. Now, if you do just fly straight out...well, nobody will likely be the wiser because the FAA isn't micromanaging things, it's probably perfectly safe, and really, nobody cares. But it may not be legal. Sometimes you have to think a bit. But knowing what you are permitted and not permitted to do is an extremely important part of doing the job.
A wise man told me, "you gotta know the rules so you know what to say when you get caught breaking them."
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
There's a lot of stuff that "doesn't make sense" but is "LAW!"
Why is it that at many airports I can fly an airplane that cruises at 250kts in 1SM and clear of clouds at 500' AGL totally legally without an attitude indicator, but I can't fly that same airplane at FL200 on a bluebird day without an attitude indicator?
Why is it that I can takeoff in 1800RVR at an airport that has an ILS, but I can't takeoff at a satellite airport that's 3 miles away in 3/4 mile visibility when there isn't much difference in terms of runway lighting?
Similarly, why can I pick my destination airport as my takeoff alternate if it's less than an hour away? Further, why can I pick that takeoff alternate to be across a mountain range I WOULDN'T be able to climb over single-engine?
There's lots of weird stuff like this.
Why is it that at many airports I can fly an airplane that cruises at 250kts in 1SM and clear of clouds at 500' AGL totally legally without an attitude indicator, but I can't fly that same airplane at FL200 on a bluebird day without an attitude indicator?
Why is it that I can takeoff in 1800RVR at an airport that has an ILS, but I can't takeoff at a satellite airport that's 3 miles away in 3/4 mile visibility when there isn't much difference in terms of runway lighting?
Similarly, why can I pick my destination airport as my takeoff alternate if it's less than an hour away? Further, why can I pick that takeoff alternate to be across a mountain range I WOULDN'T be able to climb over single-engine?
There's lots of weird stuff like this.
the * you talking about?
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
So you guys are clear... here's the end result of the PMs I've gotten after trying to explain this ad nauseum.
So, let me give you a hand here, the bold stuff IS LITERALLY COMPLYING WITH THE REG! IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE INSTRUCTION.
Also, you work for Mesa, so, really, who's the dumbass here?
So, let me give you a hand here, the bold stuff IS LITERALLY COMPLYING WITH THE REG! IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE INSTRUCTION.
Also, you work for Mesa, so, really, who's the dumbass here?
z987k
Well-Known Member
No he wasn't wrong. You just have the reading comprehension of a toddler. How do you fly an airplane with this terrible of a comprehension of the regs?
"Obstacle departure procedures are not mandatory unless of course, it was included with the ATC clearance. Typically the ATC clearance will not include the ODP unless the controller assigns it for separation. It is the pilot’s responsibility to avoid obstacles until at or above the minimum vectoring altitude."
Obstacle Departure Procedures - PilotWorkshops
up your ASS>
Obstacle Departure Procedures - PilotWorkshops
up your ASS>
z987k
Well-Known Member
Yes, we've been saying over and over again that's an option that complies with the regs. Even the regs says that. We mentioned that being a possibility, but since we can't possibly know what your ops specs are since they are carrier specific, we moved on since you didn't seem to know them either. Which brings me to - what on earth are they teaching in ground school these days?
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I’d like to point out that unless you actually receive a climb VFR clearance you cannot as a 121/135 use a VFR climb.
and it's been mentioned ad NASEUM that it's possible. YOU dopes have the reading comprehension of TODDLERS.
Ground school??> You want to know the truth?
They teach NOTHING about this.. Got it?? NOTHING. I'm not exaggerating. NOThING. Not even mentioned.
Hell, until this past AQP I didn't even know it was not ok to set the flaps to take-off setting before de-icing. It was news to me we can only do flaps-45 or flaps-0
CANPA approaches? You know about these?? I didn't know until a recent line check that we're supposed to put in the intermediate fix for this predictive monitoring BS.. Why not just dive and drive? makes it so much easier?
this was NEVER COVERED IN TRAINING.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
And you wonder why prags was making fun of Mesa...
yes I do... Please explain.
C'mon.. TOUGH GUY.. C'mon.
Then explain to me why Envoy SUPERPILOTS were reprimanded for crossing 18L after being told to hold short.
And then explain to me why Skywest SUPERPILOTS were admonished for climbing from FL320 to FL360 when their clearance was to climb to FL340.
Then explain to me why Delta wasn't reprimanded when they asked if their last assigned altitude was compliant after having been told to descent via. And tell me what Alaska wasn't admonished when they asked if speeds were necessary on an arrival despite not given a descend-via clearance yet.
C'CMON... C'mon TOUGH GUY.
You can piss on Mesa as much as you want.... doesn't mean you're better.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I mean, their training sounds like it has some pretty big holes.
Tell me when you understand how aviation works so I feel safer in the skies. Until then,, I’m certainly avoiding Alaska since you admitted to working there.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
A bunch of us have been doing this for most of this thread.
And I’ve proven you wrong with examples and OpsSpecs and yet you continue your crusade. A check airmen finally chimed in via email and said “ODP are absolutely not required.”
So keep trudging on my friend...
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