To ODP, or not to ODP, that is the question.

[MNFlyboy]

Here's the what if scenario:

You're at an airport and you've been given your clearance to your next destination, "As Filed".

Your filed route is from the departure airport, to the VOR off field 4nm away, then via a victor airway.

You were NOT cleared via a SID, and an ODP exists.

For all intents and purposes, the weather is VFR, better than 5,000 & 5.

When are you allowed to depart on your "own nav" and provide your own obstacle and terrain clearance and not follow the ODP, and to what altitude? This pertains to an ODP that takes you really far away from your intended route and it seems like a short cut to your route VFR is possible.

My understanding is that looking at the Take-Off Mins and ODP section of the charts, states TAKEOFF MINIMUMS "... or 2500-3 for climb in visual conditions." Also note, that the MEA for the victor airway is 4,000' in all directions from the VOR.

 

[ppragman]

Under 135 you must fly the ODP. Under 91 you can do what you want.

 

[BobDDuck]

Likewise, 121 requires the ODP unless you are given something else.

 

[z987k]

Fly the whole ODP under 135. If you don't want to, you can ask for a VFR climb or just blast off 1200 and get your clearance en-route.

 

[Dugie8]

Likewise, 121 requires the ODP unless you are given something else.

That something else has to come from the tower.

 

[Dugie8]

Fly the whole ODP under 135. If you don't want to, you can ask for a VFR climb or just blast off 1200 and get your clearance en-route.

No such thing as a VFR climb under part 135.

 

[Ian_J]

Likewise, 121 requires the ODP unless you are given something else.

Likewise with the Army.

 

[Capt. Chaos]

Fly the ODP, when at the minimum vector altitude ask for direct.

 

[z987k]

No such thing as a VFR climb under part 135.

Ok, it's worded as a climb in VMC or climb in visual conditions or something like that. I've never had a use for it.

 

[Dugie8]

Ok, it's worded as a climb in VMC or climb in visual conditions or something like that. I've never had a use for it.

Under 135 there is no provision for a VMC or IMC climb or relief from obstacle clearing standards.

 

[z987k]

Under 135 there is no provision for a VMC or IMC climb or relief from obstacle clearing standards.

Ah, ok I guess that's a 121 thing?
And if not, I'm thinking of something, which I know exists in some form...

 

[derg]

Under 135 you must fly the ODP. Under 91 you can do what you want.

And 121.

 

[derg]

Likewise, 121 requires the ODP unless you are given something else.

Correcto.


ALSO, here's a caveat too, if you're past your missed approach point, you're no longer executing a missed, you're conducting a "rejected landing", which drives you to follow the ODP instead of the MAP.

 

[z987k]

Correcto.


ALSO, here's a caveat too, if you're past your missed approach point, you're no longer executing a missed, you're conducting a "rejected landing", which drives you to follow the ODP instead of the MAP.

What if the runway you're landing on has "NA" for the SID?

 

[derg]

What if the runway you're landing on has "NA" for the SID?

I haven't seen that. Which airport/runway are you talking about? I'll look it up on Jepp.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

I haven't seen that. Which airport/runway are you talking about? I'll look it up on Jepp.

Lots of them do. You probably don't see it too much in your big plane and big airports.

 

[derg]

Lots of them do. You probably don't see it too much in your big plane and big airports.

So if you're asking me a question you'd like an answer to, I can probably look at an example and use either (a) 27 years of experience (b) walk down to the OpsSpecs department on campus and get an answer tomorrow, or (c) call our FAA POI, who I know, and get an straight-from-the-horses mouth legal interpretation.

Let me know how I can help.

 

[z987k]

I haven't seen that. Which airport/runway are you talking about? I'll look it up on Jepp.

While this is probably not the best to use because people go, oh well that's Alaska, blah blah, it certainly gets 121 service daily. I know this one off the top of my head though.

The ILS LOC/DME Z(or Y, doesn't matter) 25 into PADQ. Then the Kodiak Six departure.

 

[ppragman]

Correcto.


ALSO, here's a caveat too, if you're past your missed approach point, you're no longer executing a missed, you're conducting a "rejected landing", which drives you to follow the ODP instead of the MAP.

Not to knock you around any, but is this in your FOM? I've never heard of this before.

If you go missed passed the MAP you're supposed to execute the published missed just like anywhere else AFAIK - if you're on a circling approach, you turn to runway, establish yourself on the inbound course, then proceed to execute the missed. 91.175 seems to say:
If you don't have the field in sight (and by that I mean all the legalese about approach lights, runway lights, etc) at the MAP - go missed
If you're below minimums and you lose sight of the field - go missed
If you lose sight of the field during a circling maneuver - go missed

I can only think of a few airports where flying the published missed after the MAP would be inadvisable. PADQ is one of them, the Dutch Harbor Special approaches are others.

 

[Dugie8]

Ah, ok I guess that's a 121 thing?
And if not, I'm thinking of something, which I know exists in some form...

Nothing exists in any form that allows you to ignore an ODP because of VMC conditions. I will dig out all the regs later tonight. Gonna watch zero g Sandra bullock boobies.