The Flying Turkey a CFI?

[DrBenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Without even knowing Turks instructor I demonstrate the same thing, which basically shows what will happen if the student stalls, panics, and attempts to pick up the dropping wing with the yoke. [snip] Yeah, it wasn't pretty, but the recovery was straight forward and no way did I ever exceed 2.0g or any airspeed limitations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tired, how much altitude would you expect to lose in such a situation? The point of my question is to ask if this sort of thing ocurred in a base-to-final scenario, would there be enough alt in which to recover? Remember to factor in the time it takes for the student to overcome the initial panic.

At 500' will it be a choice between a spin-in, or a semi-controlled landing short of the runway (due to insufficient alt needed to recover)?

 

[EatSleepFly]

[ QUOTE ]
At 500' will it be a choice between a spin-in, or a semi-controlled landing short of the runway (due to insufficient alt needed to recover)?


[/ QUOTE ]

Probably a spin-in, if its someone who hasn't done a great deal of spinning.

This is a situation that is easily avoidable. Fly the patterns right, maintain coordination and airspeed, and a spin in the pattern won't happen.

 

[stuckingfk]

Tired,

[ QUOTE ]
Please give me the name of your work place so I can bash it "in good fun".

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, you can have it. I go to UND. Bash away. I do it all the time. I'll say something I don't like about it here. All the the initial training is done in warriors that aren't approved for spins. One of my instructors has tried many times to put them in a spin and he can't get the plane to do it. I believe spin training should be taught early on so a student can recogize it and know how to recover from it, not just know the emergency procedure for it (RTCRTC). How is one to know what a spin is actually when they have never seen one? Spin training isn't taught here till the CFI course and I don't agree with that, but hey I am just a student, what do I know.

As for what I said earlier, it was a joke. I would just like to see an airplane other than a 150 Aerobat for spin training at a school where the training costs equal the price of a small house. I know a spin is a spin, regardless what plane you do it in. I just think you should have something different.

 

[Tired]

[ QUOTE ]
Tired, how much altitude would you expect to lose in such a situation? The point of my question is to ask if this sort of thing ocurred in a base-to-final scenario, would there be enough alt in which to recover? Remember to factor in the time it takes for the student to overcome the initial panic.

At 500' will it be a choice between a spin-in, or a semi-controlled landing short of the runway (due to insufficient alt needed to recover)?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the aircraft begins a spin at 500ft then you're pretty much done for.

That is pretty much the point of demonstrating the maneuver, to show how dangerous doing something like that is at low alt, and how to recognize the situation developing and prevent the stall from happening.

 

[dakovich]

when i was doing my private check ride at Panam last year the DE actually did do a x-control demo for me. he did it just as turk's CFI explained and only got in a nose down position, not a spin so as to show me what could happen. i remebered that as i was reading these posts today.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

And ground school continues..... it keeps going...and going....
Only one week left though. Basically all we do in ground school is present our briefs to the class. There are 5 of us in the class, and by the time each of us does our brief, class is over. I guess its good to practice the briefs in front of people. I haven't learned anything new in ground school, but my instructor has been very helpful.
I have about 15 more lesson plans to write, study for the final, study for the FAA written, study for the stage check, then worry about the checkride, and all of this is going to happen in the next week/week and a half. It is not difficult, it's just so much all at once.
At this point I am numb.

The Turk.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

THE END!
Ground school ended today with the final exam. It wasn't that hard of a test. The FOI portion was the tough part. Trying to remember all those "laws, principles, and theories" was a real bummer. I don't know my score yet, but I know I passed. So now I can concentrate on studying for the written, and practicing my briefs. All my flights are done, with only the stage check left to do. I think I will do another "role play" flight before I do the stage check. Next Wednesday 5 of us are going to the Orlando FSDO for the CFI/ESP class. I am getting more and more confident as time goes on, and I am actually looking forward to doing this checkride. I just need more work on those damn lazy eights! If I dont do them every day, I lose the touch!

The Turk.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

I said I would report the good with the bad at Pan Am, so here's some not-so-good...
Just when I thought ground school ended...
For some reason, which I am apparently not smart enough to comprehend, Pan Am has decided that we are to start CFII ground school tomorrow. I haven't even taken the FIA yet, let alone the checkride! I dont know how they expect me to do well in CFII ground, when all my energy is going towards passing my FIA, and CFI checkride. Oh yeah, theres that CFI stage check too. Oh, and because CFII ground has started, we wont be able to go to the CFI/ESP class at the FSDO either. GREAT. And there goes the role play flight I was going to do tomorrow.
This is the first time Pan Am policy has interupted my training, and/or bothered me in any way. Maybe things will be resolved tomorrow. We'll see...

The Turk.

 

[dakovich]

consider yourself lucky, during my stay at PA such unexpected changes were a regular occurance. it bugged some people more than others, but we all just learned to expect it and do our best to deal with it (not that anyone was happy about it). i just saw it as more disrespectful than anything and went on with my work.

sounds like if this was your first experience with such a problem then things might have improved a bit...but imagine if it happened to you during every rating and how upset you would get and then maybe you'll understand why some people on here have such animosity toward PA.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

We still have CFII ground school, but we were given Wednesday off so we could go to the CFI/ESP seminar at the Orlando FSDO. I am glad they were flexible enough to allow us to go. And in a way I am glad CFII ground has started, that way I'll get it done fast, and I wont have to worry about it. Heck, the class only last's for 5 days anyway. But, most of my energy will be going towards passing my CFI stage check, and check ride.

The Turk.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

I took the FAA written today and did better than I thought I would. I didn't study that much for it, so I guess I retained more information than I thought I did.
CFII ground so far is a no brainer, it's just a review of the stuff we learned for our instrument ratings.
Now I can concentrate on studying for the stage check, and check ride.
We went to the CFI/ESP seminar at the Orlando FSDO yesterday. It was pretty informative as we got to hear from and speak to a few of the FAA flight examiners, and one DPE who is on the safety board. It was a lot of safety info, and some info on what the CFI checkride is like. Then we had about a 2 hour lecture on GPS. And there was about a half hour on the WINGS program. We got a nice certificate that says we are CFI's with ESP (enhanced safety program) that's funny because I'm not a CFI yet. And they took a group photo and posted on the Orlando FSDO website.

The Turk.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

It is stage check time once again.
Although I have studied like crazy, there is so much info to know, I dont feel totally prepared. Do I ever feel totally prepared? Probably not.
So, to continue with my rant on having to do CFII ground so soon, I will have a long day tomorrow. CFII ground from 10:00 to 13:00. Stage check from 13:00 to 17:00. Lunch at dinner time. And I have the CFII final on Tuesday. When was I supposed to study for that?
At this point I feel like I just ran a marathon, and I am on the last 1/2 mile, but I am too tired to finish.
OK I'm done bitching. Back to the books...

The Turk.

 

[shooter13]

Turk, Seeing as how all of your threads somehow end up with people arguing over Pan Am’s merits, I'd like to at least say thank you for continuing to post your progress and experiences. It is very motivating to those of us currently stuck in a career we hate.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

Shooter, thanks for the kind words! But if you hate your career so much, what are you waiting for?

Well I passed my stage check. I did have a few spots where I need some more work, (in the oral portion)but at least now I know my weak spots. That is what I will concentrate on as I continue to study for the checkride. The flight went really well, I nailed the lazy 8, and chandelle. My soft field T/O was great but the soft landing wasn't so soft. I never talked so much during a flight.

Tomorrow is the CFII ground school final exam. It is only 25 questions so it is not much of a final. I can study a little for that tonight.

So now I know my weak areas and I can study accordingly. I will probably have a flight or two between now and the checkride just to keep sharp. I have heard CFI checkride horror stories, and I have also heard about the "easy" CFI ride. So I dont know what to expect.

The Turk.

 

[EatSleepFly]

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard CFI checkride horror stories, and I have also heard about the "easy" CFI ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only checkride I had that was easier than the CFI ride....


...was the CFII ride!

(seriously)


Good luck...I'm sure you'll do fine!

 

[shooter13]

I hear you Turk but I am bound by law to my current job for another 433 days. Not that I am counting or anything... This job has gotten better. I can actually get on JC now from work.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

I passed the CFII final. No big deal.
So now all my concentration can go towards the CFI checkride. It will probably happen sometime next week. Figure a few days for the FSDO to get my 8710 processed and to schedule the ride. If they are busy I may get a few choices of DPE's, and I would have to call them directly and get it scheduled. So it's up to the FSDO once I send in the 8710, which will probably be tomorrow. I am really nervous about this one.

The Turk.

 

[flightlevel20]

I was just wondering what a typical day is like during your cfi training? What time do you start in the morning and what time do you finish in the evening?

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

CFI training starts with 4 weeks of ground school. 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, M-F. The flight training runs concurrently. There are 12 flight lessons, so we average 3 flights a week, so we are done with ground and flights in 4 weeks. Ground school went from 4 PM to 7 PM. So we flew around the ground school schedule.
Typical flying day: flight from 10:00 to 12:00 ground 16:00 to 19:00

The Turk.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

The FSDO got back to us today and the news is good. (for me anyway) I have the choice of 1 of 3 DPE's, and 2 of them are local, 1 in Orlando. I wont be going to Orlando.
So that narrows the choice down to the 2 local DPE's, which one is the hard part.

The Turk.