The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

SpiraMirabilis said:
I thought it was interesting when the MA authorities said that he didn't have a permit to carry a weapon. But surely that is impossible, I mean it would be illegal to carry a weapon without a permit.
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Lots of states have open carry laws which do not require a permit. Some states allow concealed carry without a permit. Most every state you can transport a gun through without a permit. ( good luck in NY and MA) but clearly criminals listen to those laws
 
Acadia said:
What is a GWL? I assume it is an ID, and like any state ID, it is probably trivial to get a fake one made. Nothing you have described proves that you have not sold to a criminal. All you know is that you saw some ID's that looked real to you and the person sounded legit. Unless you know the person, you can't know.
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It is a Georgia Weapons License (conceal carry). It requires a background check and it allows you to bypass the background check at the FFLs therefor its good enough for me in skipping their background check. And again...fake IDs are ILLEGAL...more criminals and not law abiding folk. Enforce the laws you have...
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
It is a Georgia Weapons License (conceal carry). It requires a background check and it allows you to bypass the background check at the FFLs therefor its good enough for me in skipping their background check. And again...fake IDs are ILLEGAL...more criminals and not law abiding folk. Enforce the laws you have...
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Yep, but how do you know the person you are selling is using a legit ID? What check are you able to perform during a private sale the confirms the seller is who he/she claims to be? That is the point of having actual background checks for all transactions. If it was required and sellers were honest, criminals would have a much harder time buying guns from legal owners. Otherwise, you have no idea who you are selling to in a private sale.

Not claiming it could or would stop all purchases, but it would be a good start. As it is now there is nothing that even slows the flow of guns to criminals other than it isn't easy to buy a brand new gun from a legit dealer.
 
pullup said:
So NRA lobbying is evil because you disagree with it yet ALPA lobbying is ok because you agree with it? Ok then...
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No I didn't say that. ALPA has no choice but to lobby as the industry groups are. Not saying it is right.
 
If Seggy's saying nobody can lobby and the business of lobbying is outlawed for all...then I'm actually down with that in a big way. If he's saying selective lobbying is ok while some isn't, I oppose with an almost jihadist ferver.
 
Seggy said:
Have you ever been in a fight?
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No, what's it like!? Sounds dangerous! It wouldn't, by any chance, render the normal rules for behavior invalid, due to the like visceral and immediate life or death nature of the thing, would it? Because I believe I've heard that sort of excuse for intellectual venality since, well, the first time I saw two kids fight.
 
"Have you ever been in a fight?"

Hmmm ...

Verbal or physical? And for what purpose?

Sometimes the scars - and the cost - are worth it. Sometimes they are not. Personal experience with both kinds speaking here but your mileage may vary.

Generally speaking, I'd personally suggest that compromise is sometimes more productive and somewhat less costly. You can go to the mat for a principle, change nothing and have no one even notice. Words can hurt. Flesh can heal. There is a real price to both principle and action.

What are you willing to pay - in person - for the convictions you hold? You never forget the faces of those who disagree when it becomes more than theory, however deep the strength of your conviction.
 
Boris Badenov said:
No, what's it like?
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When I was bouncing, a drunk dude sucker punched me. While the other bouncers of the club came over, I defended myself and then this drunk dude also had the opportunity to meet my coworkers, then while we were kicking him out, he decided that the police officer standing outside was someone to say a few nasty words to and he got to meet the inside of a jail cell that evening.

I am a very peaceful person and hate violence, but if someone punches me, you can bet I will defend myself. Same concepts with lobbying, someone tries to punch you, defend yourself.
 
Boris Badenov said:
So, basically, there are things that are right and things that are wrong, unless you're "defending yourself", as determined by...you?
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According to some prior posts.... 'defending yourself' and 'vigilante justice' are synonymous... both of which are unacceptable if they involve a firearm.
 
Boris Badenov said:
So, basically, there are things that are right and things that are wrong, unless you're "defending yourself", as determined by...you?
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No, sometimes in life you have to do things you don't like doing because others are doing it. If you don't, you can get hurt.
 
Acadia said:
Yep, but how do you know the person you are selling is using a legit ID? What check are you able to perform during a private sale the confirms the seller is who he/she claims to be? That is the point of having actual background checks for all transactions. If it was required and sellers were honest, criminals would have a much harder time buying guns from legal owners. Otherwise, you have no idea who you are selling to in a private sale.

Not claiming it could or would stop all purchases, but it would be a good start. As it is now there is nothing that even slows the flow of guns to criminals other than it isn't easy to buy a brand new gun from a legit dealer.
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You realize that if they are using a "fake" id then they could "fake" who they actually are and a background check could come back normal because the person you ran is not who is standing in front of you? Have you ever bought a gun? You fill out information that they call in. You need a photo id on top of it, but if its fake then you would never know. Once again, criminals will always find a way around the law. But per your "statistics" a few pages ago, that is not high on the list of how criminals obtain guns. They generally obtain guns by breaking laws that are already there...so enforce those. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Seggy said:
No, sometimes in life you have to do things you don't like doing because others are doing it. If you don't, you can get hurt.
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You do realize you just used the same reasoning people have for having guns, correct? You might want to rethink what your argument is, other than just you don't like guns.

This has at least been an entertaining read, if for no other reason than seeing how people justify their opinions...
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
You realize that if they are using a "fake" id then they could "fake" who they actually are and a background check could come back normal because the person you ran is not who is standing in front of you? Have you ever bought a gun? You fill out information that they call in. You need a photo id on top of it, but if its fake then you would never know. Once again, criminals will always find a way around the law. But per your "statistics" a few pages ago, that is not high on the list of how criminals obtain guns. They generally obtain guns by breaking laws that are already there...so enforce those. Why is this so hard to understand?
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For starters, very often fake ID's do not have legit data on them and the check should turn that up as a red flag. You could also raise the bar to a much better form of identification like a passport. I agree, criminals will always find a way, but the key is finding reasonable ways to reduce the flow. This is an option we should be exploring as it in no way infringes on legit owners rights to own guns. Right now there are zero roadblocks for criminals. Cash, a cheap fake ID and the sky is the limit. One stop shopping right here: http://www.armslist.com/.
 
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