Acadia
Well-Known Member
Do I really need to go digging up all of the news stories of modern day gun running, and are you actually going to deny that criminals buy guns through private sales?
The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues
- Thread starter Hacker15e
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Do I really need to go digging up all of the news stories of modern day gun running, and are you actually going to deny that criminals buy guns through private sales?
WacoFan
Bigly
Um...no, it's one of those things called "Common knowledge" as of a couple months ago. It's like asking for a source that the sky is blue. The administration announced (February I think) that it was suspending enrollment into PCIP (pre-existing conditions insurance plan). Apparently they grossly miscalculated the enrollment and cost - shocker there for such a well-thought out bill. Those mean old Republicans have fast-tracked a bill called the Helping Sick Americans Now Act which would move money out of the Obamacare slush fund that pays for "public education" - basically PR for Obamacare and move it into the PCIP. Hopefully that will pass - can't see any democrat voting against it - especially now that Jay Rockefeller and Baucas are starting to get cold feet about the entire bill and the medical device tax lost a vote in the Senate 79-21 or something like that.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be so flippant here or you could be in for a very rude awakening. Most of the anti-gun folks are in the population centers of this country (New York, California, New Jersey, Chicago) so it wouldn't take much to swing things. Also, with the likes of Bloomberg starting to get involved with his money, the NRA may be soon outnumbered.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, I'm denying that it's a "large part," as you claimed.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The PCIP is only a temporary government program that was severely underfunded. The real solution to the pre-existing condition problem comes next year, when every insurance plan is prohibited from denying coverage. Believe me, I stay on top of this. I'll be self-employed next year, and I have a pre-existing condition.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Yes, I do think it is a bad thing. There needs to be a level playing field in Washington for legislation NOT based on money or fund-raising. With lobbying groups that is impossible. As for ALPA, if you can't beat 'em, you need to join 'em with the lobbying efforts.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
So, just so I'm clear on this, when the Koch Brothers contribute millions upon millions of dollars to tilt the system in their favor, you boo them. When that pansy-ass nitwit Bloomberg does it with his millions, though, it's suddenly admirable?
I prefer the NRA. Millions of small contributions from millions of people. That rich • Bloomberg with his armed bodyguards can take his opinions on gun control and shove them.
WacoFan
Bigly
I have MS. The temporary program FIRST required that you be completely devoid of any insurance for 6 months prior to buying that coverage. I said, what about MS where I have daily injections that cost $2,000 per month? All I heard was crickets. Didn't have an answer except pay out of pocket. Of course, now the plan is "suspended". Given that the exchanges have a snowballs chance in hell of being available for open-enrollment on October 1st, and given that they've already repealed the CLASS plan (Long term care) and pushed the small business exchange back a year (to 2015) you are significantly more optimistic than I about Obamacares chances. It is collapsing under its own weight. As anyone with a post-third grade math competency knew it would.
RRPower
Well-Known Member
Source?
Acadia
Well-Known Member
For starters:
http://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...search/publications/WhitePaper102512_CGPR.pdf
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
Often the above illegal dealers get their guns by traveling to states with cash and a copy of the local want ads. My next comment is anecdotal, but I call the source pretty darn good. My father, retired FBI, worked on more than a few cases where organized crime and even just smaller time thugs did this same thing. All that is required is a fake drivers licence, a cell phone, a car & cash. These folks would travel to a state and over a week fill a trunk with guns purchased through private sales. They then would then sell them at a 200% markup or better on the street back in the city. He has been out of the game for 10+ years, but says this was common in the northeast in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Doubts it could have changed.
Having background checks at a store is a joke when all one has to do is buy from a private owner. Criminals just cant buy new guns from a legit dealer.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
This shows that other sources, in fact, are the "large part" of the problem, and that private sales are actually the smallest part of it. As I suspected.
Acadia
Well-Known Member
The sources don't brake it down as percentages. ATF simply states that another large source of illegal guns are illegal dealers. Straw purchases are another problem as well. I think we need to tighten up all of these issues.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Yep, pretty much. The Koch brothers are doing nothing but putting money in their pockets, Bloomberg, is trying to protect people.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, Bloomberg is trying to make a name for himself. And I don't need some pansy-ass rich prick to "protect" me, thanks.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Enforce the current laws that aren't enforced well before you start making more than won't be enforced.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
So you don't have a source, and are actually just going on supposition? Thanks for clearing that up.
Acadia
Well-Known Member
There is no law that prevent criminals from buying guns from you or me, so there is nothing to enforce to prevent that. Personally, I unless I know the buyer, I would rather find out that I am selling to a legit person by having a check be part of the process. Pretty small hurdle and it does not limit what I can own.
RRPower
Well-Known Member
Everything I read there had someone doing something illegal to get around existing laws. In GA, you have to "know" the person can legally own the firearm before selling it to them. So, it leads me back to my previous statement...law abiding people follow the current law, and criminals don't. The corrupt FFL...illegal. The straw purchase...illegal. And the selling to persons that are not allowed to own a firearm...illegal. If you are truly a law abiding citizen then you should never have a gun get into the wrong hands. I refuse to sell to anyone FTF unless I KNOW them. That is my personal policy...but then again, I've never had the ATF show up looking for anyone I have sold to, what do I know?
As much as you want to believe, people don't just accidentally sell to a criminal. Your background checking would do nothing to stop the corrupt FFL, or the straw purchaser. And again, I go back to my original question...how will you prove that a proper background check was done when you sold gun A?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Even if you got the law ratified, there would still be no way to enforce it. There is no gun registry, and there is no requirement to keep background check records. In fact, it is prohibited. Therefore, the background check is useless. I could still sell to a criminal without a background check and no one would know it ever happened.